NetBSD On The State & Future Of X.Org/X11

[Weasel]

Let me tell one more time.
KWIN/WAYLAND IS WORKING GREAT

OK? Go away now. Use whatever shit you like.

Let me tell you one more time.
X11 IS WORKING PERFECTLY, AND WAYLAND IS STILL BROKEN AND WON'T ALLOW TO POSITION WINDOWS VIA SCRIPTS

OK? Go away now. Use whatever shit you like.

[AlanTuring69]

Let me tell you one more time.
X11 IS WORKING PERFECTLY, AND WAYLAND IS STILL BROKEN AND WON'T ALLOW TO POSITION WINDOWS VIA SCRIPTS

OK? Go away now. Use whatever shit you like.

look man, x11 is the real deal old and gold ya know? waylands fancy but no cigar scripts gotta work! 45 years system ingineer here x10 was the pioneer x11 just nailed it right. nobody needs that overhyped rust just keep it simple with the classics like javascript oop? that's just bloat dude pure bloat! you can keep your shiny new toys ill stick with what works take it easy with the GNOMIES and KOMMUNISTS they dont know better x11 rules period

[Weasel]

I have nothing to cope about.

You do, that's why you keep posting the same coping claims, LMFAO.

By "claims" I mean crap not based on facts or data. Of course, claiming Wayland supports drawing on the screen is a fact, not a cope, that's totally fine.

But look at this pure cope:

Wayland is what is coming.
Wayland is currently the future.

That's pure cope. Keep repeating it like a mantra if it makes you cope better and sleep soundly.

You don't want that? Find a way to change it and keep using x11 in the meantime.

I frankly don't care what the standard is, as long as it does what I want.

Same. But I will always complain about "standards" that break something essential. Don't worry, it's not just Wayland, I just happen to post in display server threads about Wayland because it's related to the topic.

You don't see me complain about lack of font subpixel rendering/antialiasing here, even though it's another "standard" that got removed in libraries because of idiot developers and it is an ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL feature. I am sick of them removing features that they don't find useful because "muh high dpi display".

Keep dreaming that I will shut up and let them have their way peacefully. The world needs to know how stuck up in their own asses they are.

Personally, I'm a lax security kind of guy, so it doesn't even matter to me. I mean I guess I understand the argument, I just find it moot to me. Everything important to me is backed up offline. I just want my computer to do the things I want, and use whatever tools I need to do that.

Maybe if I was a dev, I'd be more concerned about the technical backend aspects, but I'm not. And honestly, the majority of end users are most likely of the use whatever works mindset, and don't care at all about the technical aspects.

The only point I keep trying to make is, the writing is currently on the wall for x11. That could change in the future, but that's just where we are today.

Fair. I'm not saying I'm fine with with lack of security of X11, but functionality trumps security. Arcan can do security while also keeping functionality, instead of throwing it away like Wayland by design. That's why I expect it to be good in the future. For now I have to stick to X11.

[mrg666]

Let me tell you one more time.
X11 IS WORKING PERFECTLY, AND WAYLAND IS STILL BROKEN AND WON'T ALLOW TO POSITION WINDOWS VIA SCRIPTS

OK? Go away now. Use whatever shit you like.

Did I ever say X11 is not working? Never. You have been saying Wayland is not working. And you are lying, you don't know what you are talking about. You cannot take my words and send back to me. Your posts have no bearing, no connection to truth, no technical merit, nothing. You are just whining weasel annoying everybody.

[AlanTuring69]

More horseshit. No, in Linux not everything is a file:

• There are ioctl()s which don't use "files".
• Sockets. Yeah, they look like files on your disk, except you cannot read/write to them as normal files.
• memfd()
• Shared memory
• CUSE
• Could be forgetting about something else.

And since Linux is open source, Microsoft can create any interfaces if they don't contradict with the spirit of open source. You might have missed the Windows NT Synchronization Primitive Driver that has recently been incorporated into the kernel.

WDDM can absolutely work under Linux it's just requires a massive rewrite of the kernel and its GPU interfaces since they are ancient and inefficient. Windows WDDM drivers can be reloaded on the fly, Linux GPU drivers crashing normally means your system is completely wrecked. And not only that they simply cannot be reloaded because ... KMS! I mean I can imagine you can reload them and lose your video output in the process but that's now how Windows works. You can even remove display drivers on the fly.

I really like the quality of your contributions

jk u endlessly post toxic nonsense but somehow don't get banned lol!!!!

[mrg666]

These weasel and avis are either the same person or they are suffering fro the same mental illness. How a personality can turn into such a pest, I have no idea.

[AlanTuring69]

Let me tell you one more time.
X11 IS WORKING PERFECTLY, AND WAYLAND IS STILL BROKEN AND WON'T ALLOW TO POSITION WINDOWS VIA SCRIPTS

OK? Go away now. Use whatever shit you like.

look old skool is da way 2 go x11 is da bomb and that wayland nonesense cant even do windows scriptin right wat a joke and if ya think imma script with rust think again its js for life oop more like noop haha get it i bet those kommunist gnomies dont even know how to config a window withought some fancy gui smh

[DumbFsck]

[...]
like it or not history is not neat and tidy.

This was a very cool read, thank you for sharing.

Would you compare some standards development blockers to ill intentioned and purposeful meddling to impede progress for the case of Wayland?

To be specific, a lot of the mess around X, from what you're saying, reminded me also of when Microsoft started blocking and delaying everything the committee tried to improve in opengl, so they could get DirectX to a place where it could compete in features, and then supercede and offer more features (which wasn't the case until what, dx9?).

Or what happened when Microsoft did not want JS (or to be more precise, ecmascript) to offer features they wanted to be exclusive to .net, actionscript (was this the one by Microsoft? Or was this the one by macromedia or Adobe), aspnet or whatever. Then they delayed JS whatever edition and features that were discussed way back when are only now going to be introduced to the standard.


And this reminds me, although I think there wasn't any ulterior motives, a lot of Wayland progress was essentially stopped because of nvidia and things I don't understand, and will even probably misname, like dmabuf egl drm whatnot.

Maybe the fork on the road between mir and wayland?

[oiaohm]

Kudos for a nice history lesson, oiaohm , but you continue to neglect the fact that (major/popular/widespread) Linux distors have offered only a single X11 implementation in the entirety of their existence.

There is a problem. You are missing the early 90s history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCC_Interim_Linux

This stop existing a year before you use Linux avis.

The major widespread Linux Distributions today are not the Major Widespread Linux distribution from the early 90s. The popular early Linux distributions all of them no longer exist as Linux distributions. Trend in the pre 1996 popular Linux distribution is no included X11 server being pure command line.. Yes the distributions that include Xfree86 then Xorg defeated the ones without it in the end but that not where we started . But the people using distributions without Xfree86 still run X11 applications using commercial X11 servers.

Yes after the 90s we have not seen a major widely used Linux distribution go extinct but this happened quite a few times in the 1990s so causing forced migration to a distribution using completely different package management to what they were use to.

You are keep on going with the idea that you don't have a major case of rose color glasses.

Avis I have been continue to neglect that particular idea because is nothing other than rose color glasses by someone who only started late. When you in 1997 would have seen distributions the ones going extinct that use to be popular were not being marketed. The last 3 years of the 90s is not the 90s in general for Linux. Of course 2 years on you on Linux does not sound like much but in that time frame lots of things changed. This is a very active section of Linux history.

The 90s in general is a very messy time for Linux history the early section what a Linux distribution should be was not even correctly worked out.

[tobias]

that wayland nonesense cant even do windows scriptin right

Wayland just does not want someone to place a custom window somewhere, trying to trick users into entering credentials into the wrong application.

It is not as if the missing features from X11 are left out by accident, they are left out because they pose security problems. That any application can place windows into random places on the screen, that they can intercept arbitrary events, or can take screenshots is all security relevant. That of course has side effects: Like random apps no longer being able to handle hotkeys or screen sharing not working anymore. Upside: Random applications no longer can log your password while you type it in nor can they scrape data from screenshots when you do online banking in your browser.

But all that is of course just a smokescreen for the wayland devs to hide their incompetency behind and not an issue whatsoever since everybody is alone on their machine and all the stuff on those machines is fully trusted at all times.