Haiku R1 Beta 3 Released As Spiritual Successor To BeOS

[bitterseeds]

That can't be true, I don't use anything made before 2015. No but seriously you could just have used your imagination a little to understand what I was trying to say.

My imagination meant nothing when the word boomer is used as a pejorative. I get that you were saying it's a bunch of "olds" working on something and not moving forward. It just wasn't a very imaginative way of saying "let's move forward and not look back". And a lot of "boomers" have worked on Linux and other GNU software, it's offensive to them. /shrug

[3_golden_4]

If you can find a way to actually articulate what's supposed to be better, and not some meaningless hand waving your hobby OS might get some respect.

I might be able to do that.

I won't argue about Haiku's objective limitations. They're well known.
Haiku right now is lacking things that many linux entusiasts might want for daily use (3d acceleration, drivers, popular games, chrome, wide app support). However, I believe these features are closer than one might expect.

But that's not the point. I wanted to respond to your post about the things that make Haiku stand out for me. I can actually make a list:

• Database-like filesystem: It's really easy to setup new, custom, personal file types and manage file attributes. Since it's similar to a DB, apps can use it like one, and at the same time Haiku provides the user and other apps an easy way to access this data. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/usergu...ttributes.html
  • Let's assume you have a Haiku client to the phoronix forum. It's able to scan the forum and save files of type "Post" containing: author, text, and date, and files of type "Author" containing the relevant information. Now imagine a separate app that can scan for new additions to this DB, and shows you the twitter profile of interesting people you meet.
• Advanced file search: It's pretty advanced I'd say. I use voidtool's Everything for Windows. This is that and much more. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/queries.html
• Talking about files, Haiku has a "Translator" system. You can write a program to tell Haiku how to convert a file type to another file type. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/usergu...nslations.html
  • For example, you can use translators to convert ogg to mp3.
  • You can also use it to convert the "Phoronix Author" type into a "Contact" type to use in another program that's not the phoronix client.
  • Regular apps can make use of the Translator system as well. They can detect your installed translators and use them on the fly, allowing for easy "export" features, for example.
• Personal. Haiku system API is really easy to use. It's insane how plain simple it is to change the way you use your computer. It is at this step you realize that Windows and even Linux are not really for "personal computers". You can't appreciate until you dive a bit in. Personal means to be able to easily "make your computer work for you" instead of the other way around. You have a need, your computer is here to help you liberate your posibilities. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/api/index.html
  • Of course, this really is for the technically inclined. But even so, technical people can easily make apps for non-technical people.
• Themes. With Decorators and ControlLook, you can easily change how Haiku looks, entirely. You don't like the window tab? no problem. (this guy made dark theme: https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/flat-...ollook/9611/84)
• Hpkg. I really like that Windows lets you install and run random programs that aren't in the Windows Store. I appreciate that Haiku has a way to run stand-alone programs.

Others:

• I'm not sure how it works, but Cortex is a demo app that takes audio (video too?) from the system and lets you transform it into something else. Would it be possible to, for example, detect if you're watching a youtube video to show a Haiku, system-wide "picture in picture"? I'm not sure about this, but it is interesting.
• I'm not sure how it could be used, but Replicants let you embed a piece of your program into another one. It's commonly used for Desktop applets/gadgets, but in theory your app can support replicants from other programs. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/usergu...tml#replicants
• There's the "Hey" system as well. It's used to send messages across Haiku to change running app's behaviour and properties. I haven't thought a use case for this, but it is interesting. https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/humdin..._gui_with_hey/

I think I'm forgetting a point or two, but I believe these are the main ones that make Haiku stand out for me.

I just made an account to reply you, as it was practically an open invitation to do so

[TmTFx]

I might be able to do that.

I won't argue about Haiku's objective limitations. They're well known.
Haiku right now is lacking things that many linux entusiasts might want for daily use (3d acceleration, drivers, popular games, chrome, wide app support). However, I believe these features are closer than one might expect.

But that's not the point. I wanted to respond to your post about the things that make Haiku stand out for me. I can actually make a list:

• Database-like filesystem: It's really easy to setup new, custom, personal file types and manage file attributes. Since it's similar to a DB, apps can use it like one, and at the same time Haiku provides the user and other apps an easy way to access this data. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/usergu...ttributes.html
  • Let's assume you have a Haiku client to the phoronix forum. It's able to scan the forum and save files of type "Post" containing: author, text, and date, and files of type "Author" containing the relevant information. Now imagine a separate app that can scan for new additions to this DB, and shows you the twitter profile of interesting people you meet.
• Advanced file search: It's pretty advanced I'd say. I use voidtool's Everything for Windows. This is that and much more. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/userguide/en/queries.html
• Talking about files, Haiku has a "Translator" system. You can write a program to tell Haiku how to convert a file type to another file type. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/usergu...nslations.html
  • For example, you can use translators to convert ogg to mp3.
  • You can also use it to convert the "Phoronix Author" type into a "Contact" type to use in another program that's not the phoronix client.
  • Regular apps can make use of the Translator system as well. They can detect your installed translators and use them on the fly, allowing for easy "export" features, for example.
• Personal. Haiku system API is really easy to use. It's insane how plain simple it is to change the way you use your computer. It is at this step you realize that Windows and even Linux are not really for "personal computers". You can't appreciate until you dive a bit in. Personal means to be able to easily "make your computer work for you" instead of the other way around. You have a need, your computer is here to help you liberate your posibilities. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/api/index.html
  • Of course, this really is for the technically inclined. But even so, technical people can easily make apps for non-technical people.
• Themes. With Decorators and ControlLook, you can easily change how Haiku looks, entirely. You don't like the window tab? no problem. (this guy made dark theme: https://discuss.haiku-os.org/t/flat-...ollook/9611/84)
• Hpkg. I really like that Windows lets you install and run random programs that aren't in the Windows Store. I appreciate that Haiku has a way to run stand-alone programs.

Others:

• I'm not sure how it works, but Cortex is a demo app that takes audio (video too?) from the system and lets you transform it into something else. Would it be possible to, for example, detect if you're watching a youtube video to show a Haiku, system-wide "picture in picture"? I'm not sure about this, but it is interesting.
• I'm not sure how it could be used, but Replicants let you embed a piece of your program into another one. It's commonly used for Desktop applets/gadgets, but in theory your app can support replicants from other programs. https://www.haiku-os.org/docs/usergu...tml#replicants
• There's the "Hey" system as well. It's used to send messages across Haiku to change running app's behaviour and properties. I haven't thought a use case for this, but it is interesting. https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/humdin..._gui_with_hey/

I think I'm forgetting a point or two, but I believe these are the main ones that make Haiku stand out for me.

I just made an account to reply you, as it was practically an open invitation to do so

moreover:

• with stack & tile window management you can have one window with multiple "tabs" of different applications or put them side by side and move them together.
• about hpkgs in Haiku: they are like a piece of read-only filesystem that merges on the fly with the main filesystem, when you install an application you actually don't install anything you are just virtually merging the two layers, so no files are moved and the "root" filesystem remains intact, no overwrites no damages.
• the icons are vector graphics which use a very tiny amount of disk space and are stored as an attribute within the file (remember that it's a database filesystem)
• the ProcessController let's you easily show, kill and handle priorities of processes, you can also see their threads and how much time they spend.
• even if it has no 3D acceleration and everything is done in framebuffer you can show how fast it is handled, a nice and well designed graphic layout. This is one of the most annoying problems in X (or Wayland), that forces you to buy a supported graphic card. In Haiku you don't feel the need to change your underlying graphic hardware or the processor (unless you handle 4k videos or something very heavy).
• and well... no one has the Vulcan Death Grip except Haiku

[nokipaike]

I have always been passionate about operating systems, I have always enjoyed collecting news on this field ... BEOS/HAIKU is one of the operating systems that I have always liked to see it grow. I have had this kind of habits for 20 years, it is probable that I landed here on phoronix for this reason.
But lately I have been living strange times, there are a lot of zoomers who are quite ignorant for their obvious young age who invade my circles, and they use the word boomer everywhere, and their degree of superficiality mixed with superiority is embarrassing.
Sometimes they use the word boomer so much that I almost feel their envy disguised as contempt that blinds them.

[Delgarde]

Unless this hasn't been updated: https://www.haiku-os.org/community/g...eloping/system Haiku still lacks 3D acceleration, they're tied to GCC2 which is slow compared to modern GCC, and so on. I'm sure that BeOS apps load faster than modern applications because they're tiny programs by modern computing standards but that's like saying that because the C64 can be instantly turned on that an old commodore is faster.

Interesting reading... I see that support for floppy drives is still on their TODO list, along with improvements to "phone-line modem support". Important features, those.

[nokipaike]

Interesting reading... I see that support for floppy drives is still on their TODO list, along with improvements to "phone-line modem support". Important features, those.

Is a small group supported by volunteers and people who are passionate about haiku all over the world in the web, it is obvious that they optimize their resources, these are features in the todo list who knows how long, and they are probably features that will never be implemented, apart from some crazy volunteers who for experimenting and to study and implement them.

this sarcasm mixed with ignorance about HAIKU's story makes me angry

[AHOY]

Is a small group supported by volunteers and people who are passionate about haiku all over the world in the web, it is obvious that they optimize their resources, these are features in the todo list who knows how long, and they are probably features that will never be implemented, apart from some crazy volunteers who for experimenting and to study and implement them.

this sarcasm mixed with ignorance about HAIKU's story makes me angry

It's just banter. Were you expecting some kind of highly technical ultra serious debate about a hobby OS? Then stop salivating and start <debunking misconceptions> and talking about what makes your boomer eyes sparkle with joy. Inspire us to uninstall Linux and install Haiku R1 Beta 3.

[nokipaike]

It's just banter. Were you expecting some kind of highly technical ultra serious debate about a hobby OS? Then stop salivating and start <debunking misconceptions> and talking about what makes your boomer eyes sparkle with joy. Inspire us to uninstall Linux and install Haiku R1 Beta 3.

now you have to explain to me where did you read that I want to convince you to uninstall "Linux" to put Haiku.

Haiku you have to try it yourself, it cannot be explained is something totally different from other OS, especially Linux and its various desktop managers.
And you must have the humility to understand that due to the lack of economic resources, driver support is limited and consequently also the software one, but what is there is an experience to try at least, and you will discover that there is so much potential.

Personally speaking, i think that philosophically and in terms of order and coherence and integration with the whole environment, Haiku is superior to the Linux environment.

put here simple video better of of my thousand words.
Using Haiku OS as a Daily Driver?!

[cb88]

moreover:

• with stack & tile window management you can have one window with multiple "tabs" of different applications or put them side by side and move them together.
• about hpkgs in Haiku: they are like a piece of read-only filesystem that merges on the fly with the main filesystem, when you install an application you actually don't install anything you are just virtually merging the two layers, so no files are moved and the "root" filesystem remains intact, no overwrites no damages.
• the icons are vector graphics which use a very tiny amount of disk space and are stored as an attribute within the file (remember that it's a database filesystem)
• the ProcessController let's you easily show, kill and handle priorities of processes, you can also see their threads and how much time they spend.
• even if it has no 3D acceleration and everything is done in framebuffer you can show how fast it is handled, a nice and well designed graphic layout. This is one of the most annoying problems in X (or Wayland), that forces you to buy a supported graphic card. In Haiku you don't feel the need to change your underlying graphic hardware or the processor (unless you handle 4k videos or something very heavy).
• and well... no one has the Vulcan Death Grip except Haiku

HPKGs are actually garbage and one of the reasons many people that really liked Haiku stopped following it's progress for the most part. I even had several machines with it installed, and now... yeah I can't be bothered. Haiku went from being bootable on sub 128MB machines to all of a sudden basically requiring 1GB of ram or more (this has went down a little since then but its still there). Also the merge between the writable and non writable areas is not clean... this means you end up with things like the old BeOS config folders that everone knew, becoming read only, and being forced to learn a that if you want to write to those files you need to use non_packaged folders, which are in themselves horrendous in the introduction of language specific features into the use of the OS as well as being completely unneeded for normal use, what they likely should have done instead is added packaged folders and done the exact opposite of what they did.

The package management system also caused a falling out with the long time supporter and owner of haikuware and bebits domains...

As far as 4k videos... yes and everyone does that these days... I won't want to be stuck with an unaccelerated desktop and that is exactly what Haiku has web rendering is also horrendously slow due to this in part. Literally every reasonable desktop computer these days has hardware graphics acceleration... either with a dedicated card, or integrated accelerator, not using that because of 25 year old arguments about graphics latency that were made obsolete 20 years ago... is silly.

[nokipaike]

HPKGs are actually garbage and one of the reasons many people that really liked Haiku stopped following it's progress for the most part. I even had several machines with it installed, and now... yeah I can't be bothered. Haiku went from being bootable on sub 128MB machines to all of a sudden basically requiring 1GB of ram or more (this has went down a little since then but its still there). Also the merge between the writable and non writable areas is not clean... this means you end up with things like the old BeOS config folders that everone knew, becoming read only, and being forced to learn a that if you want to write to those files you need to use non_packaged folders, which are in themselves horrendous in the introduction of language specific features into the use of the OS as well as being completely unneeded for normal use, what they likely should have done instead is added packaged folders and done the exact opposite of what they did.

The package management system also caused a falling out with the long time supporter and owner of haikuware and bebits domains...

As far as 4k videos... yes and everyone does that these days... I won't want to be stuck with an unaccelerated desktop and that is exactly what Haiku has web rendering is also horrendously slow due to this in part. Literally every reasonable desktop computer these days has hardware graphics acceleration... either with a dedicated card, or integrated accelerator, not using that because of 25 year old arguments about graphics latency that were made obsolete 20 years ago... is silly.

sadly yours are all valid and true arguments, but despite everything to be honest, on my raspberry pi4, if there was a serious browser available (firefox preferably) that would run accelerated videos in 4k and mesa acceleration with vulkan (and consequence zink and opengl), I would not think twice to prefer HAIkU to xfce, after all it is not very much that is missing, the mesa are already there, they must be fixed