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PulseAudio Lands Much Better Support For FreeBSD - Audio Now Plays Correctly

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  • #21
    Originally posted by bug77 View Post

    How does FreeBSD handle this (multiple audio streams with independent volume control, resolution changes on the fly and such)?
    By mixing audio where it makes sense: in the kernel sound framework. Unless you enable the bitperfect mode, by the very definition of bitperfect.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by trasz View Post
      By mixing audio where it makes sense: in the kernel sound framework.
      That makes no sense at all. No need to turn the kernel into Frankenstein's monster with mixing and effects chains.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by dreich View Post

        That makes no sense at all. No need to turn the kernel into Frankenstein's monster with mixing and effects chains.
        Things should be designed in a way that results in least complexity. Otherwise you'll end up with entire subsystems designed to work around bugs in other subsystems, like with PulseAudio.

        There are no "effects chains", it's just mixing and (largely unused anymore) resampling.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by trasz View Post
          Things should be designed in a way that results in least complexity.
          That is precisely why implementing mixing "frameworks" in-kernel should be avoided at all cost. Providing said functionality via pulseaudio or sndio makes for a modular system where I can choose to install them if-and-only-if I need them. In short, I can keep all this volatile multimedia crap out of my way.

          Originally posted by trasz View Post
          There are no "effects chains", it's just mixing and (largely unused anymore) resampling.
          This is interesting because in order to mix different sources with different sample-rates assumes resampling them. Resampling is an integral part of mixing and is used all the time.
          dreich
          Phoronix Member
          Last edited by dreich; 19 January 2021, 03:04 PM.

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          • #25
            You can't escape from Pulse not even in FreeBSD...

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            • #26
              Originally posted by trasz View Post
              Things should be designed in a way that results in least complexity. Otherwise you'll end up with entire subsystems designed to work around bugs in other subsystems, like with PulseAudio.
              So... put everything in kernel, otherwise it's bad design?

              ALSA is as much a kernel module as OSS is, so obviously that's not the differentiator here.
              PA was not created to work around bugs. How could it, it still works on top of ALSA. And OSS. And the network.

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              • #27
                When it's on certain conditions problematic for it's users - can it be claimed to be good design?

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by dreich View Post

                  That is precisely why implementing mixing "frameworks" in-kernel should be avoided at all cost. Providing said functionality via pulseaudio or sndio makes for a modular system where I can choose to install them if-and-only-if I need them. In short, I can keep all this volatile multimedia crap out of my way.



                  This is interesting because in order to mix different sources with different sample-rates assumes resampling them. Resampling is an integral part of mixing and is used all the time.
                  The kernel is modular too; if you don't want sound, just don't compile it, or don't load it.

                  Resampling is only needed when you're trying to mix streams with different sampling rate, which is somewhat uncommon nowadays.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by bug77 View Post

                    So... put everything in kernel, otherwise it's bad design?

                    ALSA is as much a kernel module as OSS is, so obviously that's not the differentiator here.
                    PA was not created to work around bugs. How could it, it still works on top of ALSA. And OSS. And the network.
                    There are two fundamental differences between those two: first, ALSA is proprietary and mostly undocumented, which makes it harder for people to use it directly. Second, it's missing some basic functionality which needs to be patched over, as seen above.

                    The network part of PulseAudio could make some sense, if it worked.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by trasz View Post

                      The kernel is modular too; if you don't want sound, just don't compile it, or don't load it.
                      The code is still added in the kernel making it more complex regardless.

                      Originally posted by trasz View Post
                      Resampling is only needed when you're trying to mix streams with different sampling rate, which is somewhat uncommon nowadays.
                      As previously stated, resampling is very common these days which makes it an integral part of the mixing "framework" and unfortunately part of the in-kernel implementation which increases the overall complexity.

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