FreeBSD Adopts A New Code of Conduct Based On The LLVM CoC

[k1e0x]

Tolerance is accepting that convincing people isn't as easy as providing evidence, and that in many cases it's irrelevant to convince others of what is true and what isn't.

For example I don't care about the stance on Earth's shape (it's turtles all the way down) or opinions on Moon landings (hah, you fools believe the Moon is real) of the average coworker, we are not working in a field where that matters.

This is not a new phenomenon. Discussing anything in an open way has always been difficult.

It may sound strange to a youngling, but this day and age is so much easier to discuss something in an open way with someone else, thanks to communication technology connecting the rare smart people together so they can actually discuss stuff, while in the past they would only have unwashed plebs around them and you can't talk with someone that thinks the only topics worth discussing is the opposite sex and sports or gossip.

If there is something that makes you wish the world to burn, that is it.

It will sure cull a lot of very elderly, so it will be a godsend for many, especially in this day and age where the medical technology keeps alive the barely functional body of people whose mind has been dead for many years.

It's kind of sad, but this isn't the end of the world.

It's an useful warning call though, because while it's perfectly fine to fumble around this time, the next pandemic could be much more dangerous and fapping around for months before doing anything noteworthy about a pandemic will be really bad.

You're missing the point. It's ok to disagree with people. I do it all the time with my friends. They can hold different viewpoints than I do and that is perfectly ok. It's ok to be friends even if you believe that person holds wrong beliefs. There is a point where you can say, I disagree.. and that is simply enough.

Hell some of my friends we hold raging arguments from time to time.. it's fun.. on-lookers get all concerned too, it's cute. lol In the end we just laugh.

What isn't ok is forcing your beliefs on other people. We have to accept and allow people to believe what they want, and in most cases without shame or ostracism. I can believe someones viewpoints are pretty disgusting personally.. and still not hate them for it.

The alternative is our cultural overlords will decide what our proper beliefs are and wrong think will be a crime. It will also mean the death of philosophy as a science. I don't find that an acceptable future to live in.

[starshipeleven]

Yeah.. that is something people need to let go of too. Tolerance is accepting someone will have a belief that is different from you. It is ok to disagree.

Tolerance is accepting that convincing people isn't as easy as providing evidence, and that in many cases it's irrelevant to convince others of what is true and what isn't.

For example I don't care about the stance on Earth's shape (it's turtles all the way down) or opinions on Moon landings (hah, you fools believe the Moon is real) of the average coworker, we are not working in a field where that matters.

The polarization of society today makes discussing anything in an open way difficult. People even live in fear of it. It's not a good thing.

This is not a new phenomenon. Discussing anything in an open way has always been difficult.

It may sound strange to a youngling, but this day and age is so much easier to discuss something in an open way with someone else, thanks to communication technology connecting the rare smart people together so they can actually discuss stuff, while in the past they would only have unwashed plebs around them and you can't talk with someone that thinks the only topics worth discussing is the opposite sex and sports or gossip.

If there is something that makes you wish the world to burn, that is it.

It's any topic too.. look at Covid.. either it's the end of man kind and everyone is going to die or it's swine flu 2020 and no big deal.

It will sure cull a lot of very elderly, so it will be a godsend for many, especially in this day and age where the medical technology keeps alive the barely functional body of people whose mind has been dead for many years.

It's kind of sad, but this isn't the end of the world.

It's an useful warning call though, because while it's perfectly fine to fumble around this time, the next pandemic could be much more dangerous and fapping around for months before doing anything noteworthy about a pandemic will be really bad.

[k1e0x]

Having wrong beliefs is not OK, especially on the Internet.

Yeah.. that is something people need to let go of too. Tolerance is accepting someone will have a belief that is different from you. It is ok to disagree.

The polarization of society today makes discussing anything in an open way difficult. People even live in fear of it. It's not a good thing.

It's any topic too.. look at Covid.. either it's the end of man kind and everyone is going to die or it's swine flu 2020 and no big deal. If you have any opinion other than that some people will get upset with you. Well.. I'm sorry, I think the truth is somewhere in between those two extremes. I think the cause is filter bubbles and social echo chambers.

[starshipeleven]

That person will have characteristics and beliefs that are unique to that person.. that is ok.

Having wrong beliefs is not OK, especially on the Internet.

[k1e0x]

hermaphrodites have no sex, by definition. Asexual reproduction and all that.

Are we discussing slugs or alien lifeforms now? Because I was under the strong impression that humans weren't a hermaphrodite species.

What's your problem with slugs? Why can't they join software projects?

No but really.. People are individuals.. can we just stop trying to lump everyone all into groups and classify everything? Just have one group.. Person, that is all we need. That person will have characteristics and beliefs that are unique to that person.. that is ok.


Many virtual hugs to all the FreeBSD developers. (is this ok now? well.. too bad if not. lol)

[starshipeleven]

But how do you define the sex of hermaphrodite?

hermaphrodites have no sex, by definition. Asexual reproduction and all that.

Are we discussing slugs or alien lifeforms now? Because I was under the strong impression that humans weren't a hermaphrodite species.

[starshipeleven]

One point not mentioned here but is a part of our social norm as well. Are you allowed to be called the way you want to be called? If I haven't done a phd im not allowed to be called Dr. (this does not apply to an art context - like Dr. Bend - the artist with extreme body properties).

"Dr. Bend" is a stage name that has 0 legal value (besides being a trademark probably), I can have my friends call me "Dr. biggus dickus" and it's also perfectly fine as it has no legal value. When this performer signs legal stuff, he will be using his real name, or it will have nullified the document.

By law you cannot ask to be called Dr. or Eng. Dr. or other similar things on legal documents and name cards as only people that have the appropriate degree can do that.

If it is not a "reserved" thing, then it's between you and other people, if you can convince them that they should call you in some way, it's OK, if you can't convince them, it's also OK, there is no law forcing either way.

This is/was an issue if you are a transgender, too. But how far can you go? Individualism and dignity versus feasibility.
If you have a national database with all your citizens how difficult is it to change the entries for possible genders?
Especially if everything is run on two entries since the very beginning of those Databases.

The national database records biological sex as that matters for medical reasons (i.e. ovary cancer does not care about your gender, if you have ovaries you are at risk). There is no need to add anything to that. The state should not give a shit about your sexual orientation or identity anyway so there is no point in recording that at all.

Apart from that, just get a law out to make every institution drop the "M or F" questions unless there are valid medical reasons to ask for sex. It really serves no fucking purpose even now, when women are supposed to be equal to men, or so I'm told.

[AmericanLocomotive]

One point not mentioned here but is a part of our social norm as well. Are you allowed to be called the way you want to be called? If I haven't done a phd im not allowed to be called Dr. (this does not apply to an art context - like Dr. Bend - the artist with extreme body properties).
This is/was an issue if you are a transgender, too. But how far can you go? Individualism and dignity versus feasibility.
If you have a national database with all your citizens how difficult is it to change the entries for possible genders?
Especially if everything is run on two entries since the very beginning of those Databases. Im not arguing that it should be done or shouldn't be done. I totally support the rights of LGBT community.

I think it comes down to intent. If you want someone to address you as she/her because you feel in strongest possible conviction that you are a woman, than I see no problem. If on the other hand you want people to address you as "Dr.", and you are using that title to gain power/influence over someone/something - then no, that is not appropriate.

I tend to assume by default that there is no malice with someones desired title or pronouns. My logic tends to look like this: Does whatever the person wants you to call them materially affect anything of importance (besides their own feelings)? If the answer is "No", then it doesn't matter. If they want you to call them "Dr." and they're giving medical advice as if they are in some position of authority to do so (despite never being to medical school), then that's another story and their credentials should be scrutinized.

[paupav]

I'm not saying that I won't respect and call people by their preferred gender I'm just saying that it shouldn't be part of CoC and that there is no reason to have 52 genders other than trying to differentiate yourself from others. How much % you are male of female isn't really important in open source community.

[CochainComplex]

"gender" is a social construct. For genetics there is only sex.
Male/female is sex, not gender.
Man/woman is gender, not sex.

But how do you define the sex of hermaphrodite? Is she a she because she has breast but a penis too? Or he is a he because he has a penis but breasts too?
At least at this point you have to involve the psychological development and therefore also the way how a person defines [her-,him-,..,(end)]-self.
Some hypothesis states that the hormons got mixed up in certain development states of a person leading to transsexualism *. One can say ...e.g. a womans brain in a male body or vice versa. So how do you define the sex in this case without the taking into consideration both biological and social elements?

....after so much trigger words ...will this get approved?

*a very simplified version of this hypothesis but to make it an useable argument it was necessary to outline it this way.