SDL Developers Weigh Reverting Wayland Over X11 For SDL 3.0

[TemplarGR]

All those X11 supporters in the forums, no code in the development tree though...... Wayland offers many advantages and there is a very good reason it replaced the now DEAD Xorg, it is what it is. Yes Wayland may need a few more protocols, so what? It is not like X11 had been "stable" since 1987.... Basically people these days aren't running X11, they are running DRI3. That's how many alterations have happened to the X11, that modern desktops basically circumvent it after the initialization process and just run DRI3. To claim that Wayland is "bad" just because it receives new extensions for things developers realize they need is just trolling behavior. Wayland was designed to receive extensions.

Also, Wayland is just a protocol, unlike X11 protocol when we had just Xorg and nothing else, with Wayland there are dozens of window compositors to choose from. Even Valve creates their own for their Steam Deck (and said developer made the current article on Phoronix....). Without Wayland, consoles would have to run the bloated behemoth Xorg with all its issues, instead of creating their own display software...

[JoshuaAshton]

Do you know when X11 will get HDR support? I mean, its out for 40 years now.

Today, Gamescope/Steam Deck OLED supports HDR and 10-bit on X11 apps (Proton/Wine) with the Gamescope WSI Layer.

Admittedly though, that is just forwarding it to a Wayland surface that it tells Gamescope to override the X11 window with. We also don't suffer from the fifo being broken, as we also implement all that functionality in the associated layer/gamescope protocols.

[-MacNuke-]

Today, Gamescope/Steam Deck OLED supports HDR and 10-bit on X11 apps (Proton/Wine) with the Gamescope WSI Layer.

Admittedly though, that is just forwarding it to a Wayland surface that it tells Gamescope to override the X11 window with. We also don't suffer from the fifo being broken, as we also implement all that functionality in the associated layer/gamescope protocols.

Yeah I know. You pipe it to Wayland. Thats why it works and not because Xorg can handle it. I mean, you could have also improved X11/Xorg, but hey, you/Valve did not.

[woddy]

Whenever we talk about wayland, I always read the same things.
It's true there are some exaggerations in those who support wayland, but also the opposite.
The problem is that there are too many fans of both.
Let's stop talking about development times, because in open source software projects are often born as private projects, only at a later stage is it really taken into consideration.
We can also argue that Xorg is the best solution, but that's a lie, we needed a new protocol that was more secure and suited to today's world, then we can discuss how it was done, but now that's what we have. With Xorg in maintenance mode and its future complete abandonment, it is obvious to look to wayland.
It's ready ? It's ready for most people who make normal desktop use of it, but it's true that some things are still missing for other use cases, which is why Xorg still exists even if it's in maintenance mode. We are not talking about simple software, but about the visualization protocol and related composers that must implement the new extensions.
So let's relax...we have the option to use both for the moment and wayland will eventually cover all use cases if there is interest.
Today many users use wayland by default without problems, for other users who have special needs there is Xorg, waiting for wayland to also work for these use cases, so what's the problem?

[oiaohm]

Today, Gamescope/Steam Deck OLED supports HDR and 10-bit on X11 apps (Proton/Wine) with the Gamescope WSI Layer.

Admittedly though, that is just forwarding it to a Wayland surface that it tells Gamescope to override the X11 window with. We also don't suffer from the fifo being broken, as we also implement all that functionality in the associated layer/gamescope protocols.

Yes nicely miss that this is also using Xwayland for the X11 application. No bare metal X11 server here.

Also the Valve developers say the Wayland protocol they implemented in gamescope to make HDR work is horrible hack that most likely should not be kept around long term they gave a presentation and XDC and stated exactly this about their HDR solution.

The correct long term solution with Proton and Wine is most likely make Wayland native.

[HellToupee]

Wayland is still broken and unusable. Being an ignorant fanboy won't change that.

how on earth have i been using wayland these last few years if it is unuseable?

[HellToupee]

Does X11 need to be replaced with a more modern system? Yes. Is Wayland the best candidate to replace it? No.

And what were these other candidates?

[yoshi314]

so, the commit is about NOT prefering wayland over x11. without dropping support for either.

How exactly did this blow up to such levels ? Are people unable to read?

[pracedru]

I'm not anti-Wayland, just pro-Reality.
And the reality is that Wayland is not ready to replace X11, and even with the most aggressive and intense effort will not be ready for at least 5 years.

But it is ready and has been so for a long time now.
Some applications like the ones that use SDL will just be using XWayland.

Does X11 need to be replaced with a more modern system? Yes. Is Wayland the best candidate to replace it? No.

What is the alternative?

However Red Hat was dead set on pretending it was so now the entire Linux community is stuck with a fragmented mess of various implementations, none of which are fully functional.

No. X11 applications will be supported with XWayland for years to come... As it should btw.

And the worst part is that many Linux applications developed over the decades will never work with it, even if it is finally completed and one of the plethora of implementations is chosen as primary, because the resources to rewrite many older Linux applications will simply never be available.

Some of the features of X11 was not well thought out. These features need to go and the applications that use them will not work in the future without some modifications. This is the way it has to be.

So don't be a fanboy for either X11 or Wayland, be a fanboy for Linux and be realistic about it. Yes, Wayland is eventually going to "win", but it's going to be hell getting there because it was forced upon the Linux community long before it was ready.

"I'm not interested in arguing, as reality does the arguing for us."
SearingTruth

Well. Inspite of that, I have now commented on your arguments.

[bobbie424242]

Woooo... Massive, MASSIVE story !!! if you were desperately looking to be angry about something today, that's it !