New Group Calls For Boycotting Systemd

[blackiwid]

It is about freedom, conflict, competition, choice, much like evolution itself.

Evolution was never lineary, there was times after some events maybe a crash of a meteor or maybe after some other stuff. or when climatics changed. where less different races where there. and often the animals share much stuff, its not that every animal is completly different from other animals.

So maybe this is only a short needed period of time needed to concentrade on other stuff, when there is everything good enough and maybe till more users use linux, (more different animals are there) and then suddenly there are enough developer manpower to fork or make a concurent project to systemd.

And yes even in the time where dynosauriers were dominant there was already some small rat like animals mammals then now rule more or less the world except dynosauriers still are pretty successful (birds).

And in reallity insects rule the world or maybe bacteries so systemd will not 100% expunche everything else, but it will be the dominate thing for a long time. in 20-30 years I am shure we have also replaced at some point pulseaudio, maybe its a complete rewrite with other design we still call pulseaudio or its a fork of jack or whatever.

So for most users this software is good enough and give them the features they want. If you really have real problems with systemd in that its not fast enough or u have not the features u want. or u have to less disk space or something like that. there is a good change that somebody else has the same problems, and there will be a distro that is targeted at that. But u cant force the majority to not use a project because for a small minority its not good enough.

And that said its even often not very technical arguments I read here, most of the time I only read "we hate redhat or Lennerd and because of that we dont want to use it" sorry at least I and I think most linux users can take such arguments serious.

[psychoticmeow]

How about the protest, the boycott and the arguments given on the web page ... ? Do these mean nothing to you either?

No. And they didn't the last hundred times the exact same arguments were presented, because as everyone keeps saying, arguments should be factual, and against the reality of the situation and not built around logical fallacies.

... and here on the forum? ...

Link me to an argument that isn't absolute regurgitated shit.

[jayrulez]

How about the protest, the boycott and the arguments given on the web page and here on the forum? Do these mean nothing to you either?

That website is full of gross misunderstandings, FUD that has been debunked many times over. There have been so-so arguments in this forum that do not articulate a point or was just blah blah.. Unix blah... blah blah.

The foundations of Unix were never meant to be a dogma.
Unix did get a lot of things right at the time it was created but some of those "philosophies" may not be as relevant or valid today.

Another thing people spouting "Unix Unix" should realize that Linux is not Unix. Linux was never Unix. Linux was based on Unix architecture but that should not prevent Linux from evolving independently of Unix.
Quite frankly, if you want Unix, then use Unix. If you were using Linux as a Unix and do not like change, then keep using the current version. Do not upgrade... then you will never have to change anything about your system again.
Another option is forking the software and keep it as you like(I'm not implying that one person should do this enormous task. Rally the group of people who do not want systemd and do your own thing. If there are enough of you, then that effort may be successful.).
Of course you can always just whine on random forums/blogs about how Lennart Poettering is deep throating you but I doubt that will change your situation any.

For those spouting "systemd = windows... I don't want no windoze... micro$oft iz teh eevil". If you really believe that the absence of systemd is the only thing that prevent Linux from being windows/windows-like have a whole 'nother problem.

For those claiming that "systemd is cthulu, and it's tentacles are toughing all your software"...
Can't you see that a consistent low level system management software is something Linux was severely lacking? Of course you could throw random pieces of software with random and inconsistent interfaces... that is a pain in the ass to maintain. There is a good reason why the people who create Linux operating systems are adopting systemd. It makes integration easier and much more maintainable. Low level system software should work well together and not break easily. This means having predictable, stable and consistent interfaces (preferably message based). The problem with current systems and that systemd solves is making these low level components work well together.

I'm not even pro-systemd(I'm not anti-systemd either... mostly indifferent.) yet I can see that it will improve things for Linux based systems. Yes, it will change things... in some cases drastically. However, change isn't always bad and in this case the changes are not bad.

[sdack]

Link me to an argument that isn't absolute regurgitated shit.

When it means nothing to you then you need to stop coming here. Profanity will not change anything about it. See the forum rules.

[psychoticmeow]

When it means nothing to you then you need to stop coming here. Profanity will not change anything about it. See the forum rules.

I'm not trying to change you, just make it clear to others that you, don't have anything worth contributing. Now all you're doing is using my mild use of profanity to deflect from actually having to defend your position which makes it all the more clear that you cannot defend it and that you will do anything to avoid having to try.

Good luck with that, I guess?

[sdack]

So for most users this software is good enough and give them the features they want.

The same can certainly be said for Windows. It, too, is good enough for most users. But we are not talking about Windows and so there is no reason why the Linux community suddenly needs to accept everything. It is the Linux users who are the ones who choose differently from what most users want and thereby have shaped Linux. If it was not for them then there would not be Linux. It would all be Windows. So if any generalization can be applied here is then it is that Linux is driven by people who want something differently from what the majority wants, and that it is not the other way around.

[sdack]

I'm not even pro-systemd(I'm not anti-systemd either... mostly indifferent.) yet I can see that it will improve things for Linux based systems. Yes, it will change things... in some cases drastically. However, change isn't always bad and in this case the changes are not bad.

Yes, systemd will change things, I agree. It has caused quite the protest, and got people to think about what they really want. They even started thinking about who they want it from, which at the beginning was not an issue until those responsible said they will not do care for it. This is what has led to the protests and the boycott and can be judge both ways, as bad and as good, but I am confident about that it will lead to something better.

I also forgive you for your previous comments.

[interested]

The same can certainly be said for Windows. It, too, is good enough for most users. But we are not talking about Windows and so there is no reason why the Linux community suddenly needs to accept everything. It is the Linux users who are the ones who choose differently from what most users want and thereby have shaped Linux. If it was not for them then there would not be Linux. It would all be Windows. So if any generalization can be applied here is then it is that Linux is driven by people who want something differently from what the majority wants, and that it is not the other way around.

Perhaps, but the majority of Linux distros and developers clearly have stated that they want systemd. The extreme lack of non-systemd developers are also a clear sign that the systemd opponents are a tiny minority whose behaviour doesn't attract developers.

And Linux works with people actually doing things. Wanting something isn't enough. And at the moment nobody seems to do what the systemd opponents wants, so not much non-systemd work is being done.

[sdack]

Perhaps, but the majority of Linux distros and developers clearly have stated that they want systemd. The extreme lack of non-systemd developers are also a clear sign that the systemd opponents are a tiny minority whose behaviour doesn't attract developers.

And Linux works with people actually doing things. Wanting something isn't enough. And at the moment nobody seems to do what the systemd opponents wants, so not much non-systemd work is being done.

No. Not everyone can or only wants to be a software developer and therefore should not be forced into accepting what they find unacceptable. Everyone has the right to express their needs and to choose what software they want. As a developer can I write my own software, but if I write it only for myself or for a larger community certainly makes a difference. Only by listening to what my users want can I make sure that they get what they need. But when I choose to ignore them, and even decide against them, and only rely on the distros in distributing my software to the users, will my success be short. Doing something about it then does not mean to write your own software, but to make a protest, to choose a new distros and to boycott others. Some distros have decided against systemd and started their own projects. It is far more about respecting one another than just writing software.

[Luke_Wolf]

When it means nothing to you then you need to stop coming here. Profanity will not change anything about it. See the forum rules.

Clearly you haven't been following these forums very long, there's actually only one rule on this forum. Don't make an ass of yourself for a long period of time, otherwise you'll find yourself banned. Otherwise Michael really doesn't care, that said mark45 is probably the next one for the chopping block due to his incessant whining about his pedals.