New Group Calls For Boycotting Systemd

[gens]

So Lennart unified linux userspace audio with Pulseaudio and that's a bad thing?

unified ?
increased cpu usage and sound latency
check out OSSv4 to see how proper audio is done (before you start; it didn't become popular due to license, that has been changed too late)

[Zetbo]

unified ?
increased cpu usage and sound latency
check out OSSv4 to see how proper audio is done (before you start; it didn't become popular due to license, that has been changed too late)

Yes, unified. There are only Pulseaudio and Jack left. Most users use Pulseaudio(with ALSA) and users who need low latency use Jack(with ALSA). I know OSSv4 and it was proprietary when Linux switched to ALSA. It uses in-kernel mixing, which could never be in Linux kernel. Audio processing should be done in userspace, where it belongs.

[sdack]

I don't really think linux as a kernel is very modular. At least not more modular than the systemd project.

The kernel is very modular, but it is not the point. The kernel requires the supervision by a group or just a single person such as Linus Torvalds, because the kernel has to deal with the "bare metal" of a computer. It requires a strict control or it leads to damaged hardware in the worst case. Still, Linus respects the freedom of the user space and it is one of his highest priorities not to break user space. Everybody wants this freedom, because without it we could not even have systemd.

If it was not for this strict separation could we run everything in kernel space and leave it to a few to dictate the rules or just do whatever we want and watch where it leads us (it would lead to chaos and smoke is my guess ). Nevertheless are there also people who are invading the kernel space with things such as a Window system or a d-bus daemon in kernel space.

[interested]

It is not about the future. It is about the mistakes we have made in the past and that sysvinit is a solution to much older problems, which you only do not know about. systemd works at present, because it inherits from it, but it allows older problems to come back again, too. This is what people have been saying here over and over again. You just did not want to know about it. Do you really want to know what will happen?

Yes, I am curious to know what old problems may come back to Linux when dropping SysVinit, I mean every certified Unix have dropped SysVinit, most major Linux distros like Red Hat /Fedora /CentOS, Ubuntu, SuSE etc, have used Upstart for years instead of SysVinit etc.

I am totally fine with people trying to make a niche SysVinit distro for the future, as long as they are prepared to do all the necessary work themselves, I just don't see that happening at them moment.

[blackiwid]

like if i have a plan for a udev kind of thing, i don't have to ask no overlord if i can
nor would i write it to be rejected because "it is not in line with our vision" or "we have not got around to that part" (or just simple ignoring)

So all is fine you will show us how superiour your ideas are and the thousends of developers that are all sane will proove how bad systemd is. We can stop this thread then... why would u try to convince people to think differently than they do? People only can convince themself u only can give maybe some impuls to start thinking about something but in the end people have to convince themself.

Antoher thing, somebody I think somebody else said they hate lennord because they work for redhat. So is that a technical question or a company fanboy discussion?

[interested]

that's the point
it is called "modular programming"
for example i seen someone doing an logind replacement, and they don't have to talk to anybody to make it work good on any system

A "logind" or better yet, a "ConsoleKit" replacement is a really bad thing to make alone without communicating to others. First, it will be a hard job dealing with core system development, a single developer will find it hard, especially working part time on it. Secondly, if upstream projects doesn't know about the project or its API, they can't support it or even plan for supporting it.
Third, even if a "ConsoleKit" replacement pops up in a year or two without warning, who will implement its API in upstream projects? Upstream projects will require patches to support another "CK", who will supply them? I could go on.
Without cooperation and communication and having a supporting community, you just can't make a "logind" replacement that actually functions with other "modules" like DE's.

It seems to me that the systemd opponents have been unable to attract enough developers to sustain their own vision on how a Linux distro should be made. But that is a failure on their part, not systemd's nor Lennart Poettering's fault.

[Zetbo]

It seems to me that the systemd opponents have been unable to attract enough developers to sustain their own vision on how a Linux distro should be made. But that is a failure on their part, not systemd's nor Lennart Poettering's fault.

This is the problem with these systemd haters. They yell very loud "systemd sucks and will suck us all into blackhole!!!!1". When you ask them what you are going to do about it or what's your solution. They usually don't have any constructive to say.

[kpedersen]

When you ask them what you are going to do about it or what's your solution. They usually don't have any constructive to say.

Thats because we silently and smugly know that systemd is going to be gone within a year or so. We just don't want to see people waste their time with it until then

Systemd is great. FreeBSD has never had so many new users

[Zetbo]

Thats because we silently and smugly know that systemd is going to be gone within a year or so. We just don't want to see people waste their time with it until then

Systemd is great. FreeBSD has never had so many new users

So you don't even use Linux and you are a "systemdhater"? That is just fuck up...

[robclark]

Thats because we silently and smugly know that systemd is going to be gone within a year or so. We just don't want to see people waste their time with it until then

well, I guess time will prove you wrong. But if you manage to convince the systemd haters to shut up for the next year, I would be happy.