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  • Originally posted by Vax456 View Post
    Eh? Security through obscurity is not security.

    I find systemd's binary logs to be very nice. It's hassle-free to see a service's log and parse the times they occured. However, I'm not sure where you're getting that binary logs are less brittle to corruption than plain-text. They're files that can be written to, they're both extremely brittle. At least with plain-text, if something gets overwritten, you can still see everything else because there's no format the file has to be in.
    I would say, security through obscurity isn't full security. The security feature is not just because it is binary. Refer to https://lwn.net/Articles/512895/

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    • Originally posted by RahulSundaram View Post
      I would say, security through obscurity isn't full security. The security feature is not just because it is binary. Refer to https://lwn.net/Articles/512895/
      Okay, that makes more sense.

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      • Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
        What a nice abuse of statistics that denigrates, while saying nothing at all.
        There is nothing denigrating about that; You can be a super System Administrator (SA), but a mediocre programmer, but that is OK, as long as you know your limits and try to stay below them. In fact many SA's will happily agree to the fact that they are below average when it comes to programming skills; being able to automate tasks is just part of being a SA, while programming is a central skill for e.g. system programmers.

        Accepting one's skill level at different problem domains is part of being a professional.
        Last edited by interested; 06 September 2014, 08:01 PM.

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        • Originally posted by interested View Post
          There is nothing denigrating about that; You can be a super System Administrator (SA), but a mediocre programmer, but that is OK, as long as you know your limits and try to stay below them. In fact many SA's will happily agree to the fact that they are below average when it comes to programming skills; being able to automate tasks is just part of being a SA, while programming is a central skill for e.g. system programmers.

          Accepting one's skill level at different problem domains is part of being a professional.
          Stating that half of anything is below average, while true because that's what below average means (Falling into the lower 50%), is denigration because of what "below average" is used to imply, while not actually stating anything about their skill level. If you actually want to make a comment like that it'd be better to say something that actually meant anything as opposed to relying on implication.
          Last edited by Luke_Wolf; 06 September 2014, 08:29 PM.

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          • Originally posted by interested View Post
            Seriously, I don't have any respect for people spouting nonsense about "Unix Philosophy" here on Phoronix, unless they edit their text first in "ed" - the one true editor, and post and fetch all pages with "curl". Using a web browser is clearly a strong violation of the Unix Principle; it does way too many things.
            Dont start with web browsers, I fuckin hate them

            The only reason they exist is that companys can spam their artwork and they can spam ads.


            I would give much if I could answer here with gnus instaed of using 3 garbage brwosers that all are worse then the other. firefox is slow as hell (kabini cpu). midori is fast but crashes very often or eats every second message I write here.

            then there is konqueror good if u use the keyboard but if u want sometimes also use the mouse for using it, it still sucks.

            but web makes no sense, why not givint the pure data like nntp to the users and they can look the text and pictures in a themed invironment how they like it. yes because u cant spam ads with it.

            maybe ecb can at least make it a bit better the problem is not only the clientsoftware its more the protocol so ecb or ewb whatever its name is will not fix it

            The websites should only give us apis to access their stuff, or it should be one api with some modules then users could desite what clients they want to pull and push data to taht side, and http should only be a fallback gui.


            EDIT:

            who writes me a tapatalk-gnus.el
            Last edited by blackiwid; 06 September 2014, 08:55 PM.

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            • Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
              Stating that half of anything is below average, while true because that's what below average means (Falling into the lower 50%), is denigration because of what "below average" is used to imply, while not actually stating anything about their skill level. If you actually want to make a comment like that it'd be better to say something that actually meant anything as opposed to relying on implication.
              Sure, in Lake Wobegon every child is above average. But as I explained, there is nothing wrong with being below average in a problem domain, we all are in different domains.

              The problem with SysVinit systems are exactly that it make people, who may not be very strong in the programming domain, do system programming just to make things work. A bad idea, and it certainly violates the alleged Unix principle of doing things as simple as possible.

              Systemd got it right by separating code (to be done by full time programmers) from the config file.
              In fact, systemd simplifies many things for both SA's, distro maintainers, and upstream programmers. This is why it is popular and why e.g. DE's like Gnome,KDE, XFCE, LXDE all program against it at the moment.

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              • Originally posted by interested View Post
                Sure, in Lake Wobegon every child is above average.
                No if there's an even amount then exactly half of them will be above average and exactly half of them will be below average, if an odd amount then 1 will be average, half of the remaining above average, and the other half below average, because that's how averages work.

                I could say that for the set of all Mensa members half of them are below average, while correct it would be an utterly idiotic thing to say, because it literally tells me nothing about them, while implying that they're stupid, which by definition they're not.

                Originally posted by interested View Post
                But as I explained, there is nothing wrong with being below average in a problem domain, we all are in different domains.
                Enough with this game, and pussyfooting about what you want to say. Just say it: "Sys Admins generally suck at programming", there I said it for you. Was that so hard to drop the pretension and say what you mean?

                Originally posted by interested View Post
                The problem with SysVinit systems are exactly that it make people, who may not be very strong in the programming domain, do system programming just to make things work. A bad idea, and it certainly violates the alleged Unix principle of doing things as simple as possible.

                Systemd got it right by separating code (to be done by full time programmers) from the config file.
                In fact, systemd simplifies many things for both SA's, distro maintainers, and upstream programmers. This is why it is popular and why e.g. DE's like Gnome,KDE, XFCE, LXDE all program against it at the moment.
                Now this on the other hand I agree with.

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                • Originally posted by pal666 View Post
                  ... linux had more than 50% of market share of end-user computers long ago and now it has more than 50% of installed base.
                  What about Windows and OS X?

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                  • Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
                    ...

                    Enough with this game, and pussyfooting about what you want to say. Just say it: "Sys Admins generally suck at programming", there I said it for you. Was that so hard to drop the pretension and say what you mean?

                    Now this on the other hand I agree with.
                    You two should just stop using Linux and go with Windows instead. You really do not have to touch any of the scripts when it is too complicated for you. Clearly, the freedom given with UNIX and Linux is wasted on you.

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                    • Originally posted by drSeehas View Post
                      What about Windows and OS X?
                      There are other sorts of computers besides desktops and laptops.

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