GNOME Foundation Names A New Executive Director

[rafanelli]

I just read KDE's COC: https://kde.org/code-of-conduct/

Much better IMHO, not those lists of human aspects, no mention of new speak words like "reverse-ism", no mention of the word "caste" that I think we kind of collectively decided does not exist (mentioning it gives it some validity).

[fitzie]

He's bringing up the most common demo historically representated in the field, a demo that he was a part of.

Notice that he mentioned age as well? What he said was that he wanted to bring in "younger", "inspirational" people which was really just because 1. He's an idiot like Elon Musk and was all about the aesthetics of progress instead of actual progress and 2. younger people who weren't established in the field yet were less likely to tell him he's wrong. The last thing he wanted to continue to hear, as he had for years, was that the shit he was making was unsafe.

For all we know he just hired 20-something year old white guys instead of 50 year olds.

You dumbasses always see capitalists being capitalists and trying to market to a larger demo, and you immediately interpret it as "They're trying to replace us. Wokeness is a disease.", etc. It's fucking stupid.

what are you talking about? no one said any of this here. you're just insulting people for not agreeing with your view of the world. and elon uses linux in tesla's and spacex, so he's good around these parts as far as I'm concerned.

[Myownfriend]

Individuals that are both straight, white, male and cis are seemingly in the "bad" corner according to this rule since they fit all categories together. I expect most contributors of Gnome are individuals in this group though. As do I.

That rule is not calling straight, white, cis men as bad. Let me post the part of the Code of Conduct first so it's established what's being talked about:

" Safety versus Comfort


The GNOME community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort, for example in situations involving:

• “Reverse”-isms, including “reverse racism,” “reverse sexism,” and “cisphobia”
• Reasonable communication of boundaries, such as “leave me alone,” “go away,” or “I’m not discussing this with you.”
• Criticizing racist, sexist, cissexist, or otherwise oppressive behavior or assumptions
• Communicating boundaries or criticizing oppressive behavior in a “tone” you don’t find congenial

The examples listed above are not against the Code of Conduct. If you have questions about the above statements, please read our document on Supporting Diversity."

Okay so the first one:

“Reverse”-isms, including “reverse racism,” “reverse sexism,” and “cisphobia” aren't actual things.

First you should ask "What is is reverse racism or reverse sexism?" The answer is, they don't exist. The terms "sexism" and "racism" already describe the thing that people who use the terms "reverse sexism" and "reverse racism" are trying to describe. The reason that those people use them is to try to try to paint any acts that are meant to combat the effects of racism or sexism as being racist and sexist themselves.

So lets say you have 13 apples and want to give them out You see two people: one with 15 apples and another with 2 apples. You decide that since the first person already has a lot of apples, you'll give all 13 of your apples to the second person so they both have the same amount. That makes sense because you're giving more to someone who has less. A revers-ism take of that would be to say that the person who started with 15 apples was being discriminated against because the other person got more, and not only was it discriminatory but now the person that started with 15 apples has less.

Is that dumb? Yes but that's exactly why the "reverse"-isms get the quotes around them. The terms exists but what they describe doesn't.

Here's the Wikipedia article to help you out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_racism

Reasonable communication of boundaries, such as “leave me alone,” “go away,” or “I’m not discussing this with you.”

In other words, if you're harassing someone and they tell you to go away or they ignore you, you can't claim that they're being hostile to you.

Criticizing racist, sexist, cissexist, or otherwise oppressive behavior or assumptions

If someone says something racist, sexist, or bigotted in anyway, it is not harassment to criticize them for whatever racist, sexist, or otherwise bigoted thing they said.

Communicating boundaries or criticizing oppressive behavior in a “tone” you don’t find congenial

If you harass someone and they tell you to "fuck off", and you don't like that they told you to go away in a way you found rude, then tough.

To be honest I also never felt discriminated against until my vaccine status became an issue a few years ago, funny enough the looooong list of "what cannot be discriminated against" in gnome's coc does not mention "medical status".

That's because almost everybody that's part of the Gnome project collaborates remotely. That being said, you weren't discriminated against for your vaccine status. Unless you have a condition where the vaccine can be dangerous to you, you're not just making a personal decision when not getting the vaccine. The purpose of the vaccine is not just to prevent individuals from getting a virus but to prevent them from spreading it. It's public health issue and you're not being criticized for something that you can't change.

Final thing on Gnome's coc: it mentions "caste". Did we not decided that castes are basically forbidden? I've been quite a bit in India and found nothing positive in the notion of castes, it's quite a disgusting concept actually.

You just mentioned "caste". Does that mean you approve of "castes"?

But seriously, lets look at the contest it was used.

"The GNOME community is dedicated to providing a positive experience for everyone, regardless of:

• age
• body size
• caste
• citizenship
• disability
• education
• ethnicity
• familial status
• gender expression
• gender identity
• genetic information
• immigration status
• level of experience
• nationality
• personal appearance
• pregnancy
• race
• religion
• sex characteristics
• sexual orientation
• sexual identity
• socio-economic status
• tribe
• veteran status

"

It's not saying "we promote caste systems". It's saying they don't want any of these things to be a barrier for someone to have a positive experience in the Gnome community.

[Myownfriend]

what are you talking about? no one said any of this here. you're just insulting people for not agreeing with your view of the world.

I'm insulting people for not thinking hard enough. It's dumb to think that just because I insulted someone for saying something stupid that, actually, I'm the kind of person who just can't take someone disagreeing with me.

and elon uses linux in tesla's and spacex, so he's good around these parts as far as I'm concerned.

So does North Korea and the Russian Federation government. Idk, in my opinion, that would be bad reason to support someone or something. . I'd much rather factor in things that matter like the fact that he takes credit for things he didn't do, considers himself to be a genius but is genuinely stupid, doesn't engage with people that challenge him, etc.

The only reason that Linux is used in Tesla's is because there's no better choice and because he doesn't have to pay a license fee. It likely isn't even a decision he made.

[Myownfriend]

I just read KDE's COC: https://kde.org/code-of-conduct/

Much better IMHO, not those lists of human aspects, no mention of new speak words like "reverse-ism", no mention of the word "caste" that I think we kind of collectively decided does not exist (mentioning it gives it some validity).

You're clearly trying very hard to find an issue with Gnome's COC here.

Who cares if they use words like "reverse-ism" or "caste"? You're using the term "caste" right now in order to condemn the concept. The issue with "caste" isn't that it's a bad word. You're not calling it "c-word" or anything. Its the concept of castes that are bad. Regardless of whether or not someone approves of caste systems or not, it doesn't change fact that caste systems have existed in the past, may exist now, and could exist in the future.

The point being made in Gnome's Code of Conduct is tell people that that, if your unfortunate enough to be living in such a system, do not worry because there's no caste systems in the Gnome community. That is all. It's not complicated.

[mos87]

Hmmm ... an article on Gnome that also involves a female

*SIRENS GOING OFF*

PS soon the Liebore will win the GE in Ol' Blighty, and this will mean prison time. Well, almost.

[guzz46]

That rule is not calling straight, white, cis men as bad. Let me post the part of the Code of Conduct first so it's established what's being talked about:

" Safety versus Comfort


The GNOME community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort, for example in situations involving:

• “Reverse”-isms, including “reverse racism,” “reverse sexism,” and “cisphobia”
• Reasonable communication of boundaries, such as “leave me alone,” “go away,” or “I’m not discussing this with you.”
• Criticizing racist, sexist, cissexist, or otherwise oppressive behavior or assumptions
• Communicating boundaries or criticizing oppressive behavior in a “tone” you don’t find congenial

The examples listed above are not against the Code of Conduct. If you have questions about the above statements, please read our document on Supporting Diversity."

Okay so the first one:

“Reverse”-isms, including “reverse racism,” “reverse sexism,” and “cisphobia” aren't actual things.

First you should ask "What is is reverse racism or reverse sexism?" The answer is, they don't exist. The terms "sexism" and "racism" already describe the thing that people who use the terms "reverse sexism" and "reverse racism" are trying to describe. The reason that those people use them is to try to try to paint any acts that are meant to combat the effects of racism or sexism as being racist and sexist themselves.

So lets say you have 13 apples and want to give them out You see two people: one with 15 apples and another with 2 apples. You decide that since the first person already has a lot of apples, you'll give all 13 of your apples to the second person so they both have the same amount. That makes sense because you're giving more to someone who has less. A revers-ism take of that would be to say that the person who started with 15 apples was being discriminated against because the other person got more, and not only was it discriminatory but now the person that started with 15 apples has less.

Is that dumb? Yes but that's exactly why the "reverse"-isms get the quotes around them. The terms exists but what they describe doesn't.

Why would they put something that doesn't exist in their code of conduct? The reason why they put it in there is to prevent straight white men from complaining about being discriminated against because the outreachy program wouldn't give them an internship because they were born the wrong skin color, you see they think its OK to discriminate against white men because they're the majority in that field, which would be like a black track and field athlete trying to qualify for the Olympics but not making it because there's already too many black men in track and field, racism is still racism even if its been rebranded to diversity.

[fitzie]

I'm insulting people for not thinking hard enough. It's dumb to think that just because I insulted someone for saying something stupid that, actually, I'm the kind of person who just can't take someone disagreeing with me.



So does North Korea and the Russian Federation government. Idk, in my opinion, that would be bad reason to support someone or something. . I'd much rather factor in things that matter like the fact that he takes credit for things he didn't do, considers himself to be a genius but is genuinely stupid, doesn't engage with people that challenge him, etc.

The only reason that Linux is used in Tesla's is because there's no better choice and because he doesn't have to pay a license fee. It likely isn't even a decision he made.

everyone who doesn't agree with me is "not thinking hard enough" so it's okay that I insult them. Jeez, you are high on your own supply. This is the similar to the rational in the wiki articles and coc you posted, bad behavior is okay sometimes because of "reasons".

I think the step of COC saying there are exceptions to being polite and treating people fairly is just silly, but the big red sign is a lot of the people pushing/defending them are rude and obnoxious. and there really isn't any need for that here.

[partcyborg]

I'm just gonna assume that anyone who sees diversity as a bad word just wants a white all-male ethnostate.

I think you mean "all-white male christian ethnostate"

[botipua22]

"Reverse"-isms, including "reverse racism," "reverse sexism," and "cisphobia" is not against their code of conduct, so you can't complain that they're being racist against straight white men when they created the outreachy program which discriminates against straight white men by giving internships to basically anyone who isn't a straight white man.

What do you mean there is discrimination against straight white men? This is incorrect. There is no discrimination in GNOME against two-spirit trans lesbians.