Originally posted by MartinN
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Ubuntu Allegedly To Have Its Own X, Wayland Alternative
Collapse
X
-
I recently evaluated all of the other distros since Ubuntu 12.10 was such a turd.
What I discovered was that even though 12.10 sucks, it was still better than anybody else's.
1. Mint - slightly less stable than Ubuntu, less useful desktop, it has nothing on Ubuntu
2. Arch - A toy, not a real distro meant for real work
3. Fedora - 17 was decent(except for the bugs), 18 is unbelievably shitty
4. OpenSuse - Are they still around?
5. Mageia - Might be contender someday, but not yet
6. Debian - I appreciate them being the extremely FOSS-minded, but they always have a dinosaur kernel that can't boot a newer PC. Debian Unstable is... Unstable.
So Android comes out of nowhere with it's own display server to become the dominant consumer OS, better than Windows OSX, iOS or anything else. Maybe Wayland isn't as good as everybody claims, and if Ubuntu can write something that's small, simple, and fast, and STILL beat Wayland to market, then why shouldn't they? Should they have also just went with Gnome3 instead of Unity so that they could be as crappy as Fedora 18? Or why not the perpetually buggy KDE? In all fairness though, the latest Gnome3 is so buggy that KDE is probably the stable one now, and I never thought I'd say that. More competition in Linux standards is great, because a some of the current standards suck and need to be dethroned by a new contender.
Those of you that think Ubuntu should wait until Ubuntu 14.10, 16.10, or whenever to adopt Wayland when it's finally ready, probably have no credentials to be telling Ubuntu how to operate. Ubuntu just works, and the only other distro that can make that claim is RHEL and it's copy-cats, and RHEL accomplishes that by sitting on really old versions of software. Ubuntu is the only distro in LInux history that can properly do bleeding edge kernels and other software, I trust them over the armchair-quarterbacks of the internet.
Comment
-
Originally posted by johnc View PostI'm sorry, here I thought you were talking about Android.
Tablets and smartphones may be where the money's at, but you also need to suck up to developers who aren't going to be coding on either of those two types of devices (unless they are truly masochistic)...
Comment
-
Originally posted by MartinN View PostAs long as "vendors" in your statement excludes Intel - who has OSS-ed the Intel HD drivers, quite frankly I don't care if the narcissists at NVidia or the day-late-and-a-dollar-short AMD/ATI folk don't port their GPU drivers to Wayland whatsoever. Just give me a laptop with Intel HD graphics, a solid Linux Intel HD GPU driver/OpenGL implementation that works with Wayland smoothly, and I will forego NVidia and AMD/ATI any day ... If I want to play games, I'll play them on my XBox....
"All the drivers in Mesa that support DRI2 under X and have KMS support can run Wayland today. The reference Wayland compositor (Weston) has no chipset specific code, it's all done through generic Wayland EGL extensions and KMS. The support for Wayland is in the shared Mesa infrastructure, so when driver writers enable a new chipset in Mesa, it will automatically support Wayland."
And please would everyone stop with the anti-gaming rhetoric every time games expose a problem with something. It is a challenge not an insult.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View PostI think the point there is that with a FOSS driver they do not need to port it - which is one of the strengths. Despite your badgering of AMD here I think they will do fairly well with the transition thanks to the good and growing AMD Gallium3D drivers, which might even get more attention thanks to Wayland.
"All the drivers in Mesa that support DRI2 under X and have KMS support can run Wayland today. The reference Wayland compositor (Weston) has no chipset specific code, it's all done through generic Wayland EGL extensions and KMS. The support for Wayland is in the shared Mesa infrastructure, so when driver writers enable a new chipset in Mesa, it will automatically support Wayland."
And please would everyone stop with the anti-gaming rhetoric every time games expose a problem with something. It is a challenge not an insult.
Thanks for pointing out what I was implying - they are FOSS - anyone can 'port' them. It's not that I'm anti-gaming- you don't gotta go rip me a new one - I only said it because I'd rather have a slick/sick Wayland-based business/app desktop at the expense of a slick gaming display server, at least in the first iteration of Wayland.
Wayland's #1 goal is to get Wayland into a usable state so that X can run on it smoothly, paving the bridge for X->Wayland migration, for no one who ever tried to supplant X outright actually succeeded, and now when we have a golden opportunity, perhaps one in a lifetime kind of opportunity, to move away from X while not forgetting X, it'd be a crying shame to allow our egos to blow this one...Last edited by MartinN; 04 February 2013, 10:13 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by MartinN View PostThanks for pointing out what I was implying - they are FOSS - anyone can 'port' them. It's not that I'm anti-gaming- you don't gotta go rip me a new one - I only said it because I'd rather have a slick/sick Wayland-based business/app desktop at the expense of a slick gaming display server, at least in the first iteration of Wayland.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by johnc View PostI'm not sure how your "point" addresses the difficulty I brought up in moving Android over to Wayland. I don't think there are any FOSS GPU vendors yet on Android.Test signature
Comment
-
Originally posted by bridgman View PostWhat does "being on Android" mean in this context ? The AMD and Intel open source drivers have been working in Android-x86 for ~2 years now, and I wouldn't be surprised if others are working as well. I haven't heard of any ARM CPU + AMD GPU systems running in the wild yet though, if that's what you meant.
Comment
-
Originally posted by porkbutt View PostI recently evaluated all of the other distros since Ubuntu 12.10 was such a turd.
What I discovered was that even though 12.10 sucks, it was still better than anybody else's.
So Android comes out of nowhere with it's own display server to become the dominant consumer OS, better than Windows OSX, iOS or anything else. Maybe Wayland isn't as good as everybody claims, and if Ubuntu can write something that's small, simple, and fast, and STILL beat Wayland to market, then why shouldn't they? Should they have also just went with Gnome3 instead of Unity so that they could be as crappy as Fedora 18? Or why not the perpetually buggy KDE? In all fairness though, the latest Gnome3 is so buggy that KDE is probably the stable one now, and I never thought I'd say that. More competition in Linux standards is great, because a some of the current standards suck and need to be dethroned by a new contender.
Those of you that think Ubuntu should wait until Ubuntu 14.10, 16.10, or whenever to adopt Wayland when it's finally ready, probably have no credentials to be telling Ubuntu how to operate. Ubuntu just works, and the only other distro that can make that claim is RHEL and it's copy-cats, and RHEL accomplishes that by sitting on really old versions of software. Ubuntu is the only distro in LInux history that can properly do bleeding edge kernels and other software, I trust them over the armchair-quarterbacks of the internet.
So in that sense, if Canonical wanted to do something better I could definitely get excited. But it's Canonical. And looking at the way things have been going recently, nearly every move is hair-brained and hardly beneficial for the user. And, worse, quality is garbage. If Apple's slogan was "It just works!" then Canonical's is clearly "It just doesn't work... and we don't care... and we're pushing it out the door anyway." So I have very high doubts about their ability to pull off a desktop-quality display server without cutting major corners. In 12.10 the end-user could not even *install* proprietary drivers without borking his system. And this group is going to write a whole display server that works?
Canonical keeps talking about bringing in the new users, and getting the non-tech savvy people into the fold. You know... "Linux for human beings." But they seem to be avoiding the fact that critical show-stopping bugs (like black screens on boot -- insanely common in Ubuntu now) are absolutely unacceptable to non-tech savvy people. Yeah maybe we can dump into a console and restart LightDM or re-install the nvidia-current package or whatever the solution, but expecting that of people who are new to Linux is just asinine.
And they don't care. They're more concerned with all these superficial, valueless changes like collapsing the Software Updater or having the Scopes perform searches on a central database or whatever other "improvement" that is entirely moot when all I've got is a blinking cursor.
Comment
Comment