Originally posted by skeevy420
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
X Window System Turns 38 Years Old
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by deltatux View Post
Thing is I'm not even using KDE nor anything in NVIDIA's limitation list. KDE's Wayland implementation in some aspects are still behind GNOME's, although their progress has been very good in recent years. The issues I was facing wasn't the desktop environment, but application specific. For example, Firefox's WebRender can break when running with native Wayland backend on the NVIDIA GPU drivers, the exact same settings works perfectly fine with the amdgpu driver. Based on my experience, Wayland works much better on AMD hardware than NVIDIA's.
While NVIDIA is not solely responsible for the state of Wayland, their current drivers doesn't help the situation and as a major GPU manufacturer, they do hold back Wayland adoption. People won't want to daily drive using Wayland as their backend if their GPUs can't render properly on Wayland and would rather fall back to X11 until it's fixed by the application/DE developer and/or NVIDIA.
Originally posted by MorrisS. View PostIs there a pure wayland operating system? a system without xwayland.
Originally posted by TemplarGR View PostTypical linux forum.... Where every half-ignorant user can bash software he doesn't use just because he doesn't use it.
Also read a "bright" comment just on top of yours which indicates the level of "understanding" of the graphics stack and APIs by a Wayland fan. "I don't want XWayland!!!"Last edited by birdie; 20 June 2022, 02:34 PM.
- Likes 6
Comment
-
Originally posted by TemplarGR View PostTypical linux forum.... Where every half-ignorant user can bash software he doesn't use just because he doesn't use it.
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by birdie View PostMany people here who "bash" Wayland, have tried and used it and just couldn't cope with it. There's no need to insult them. Explain to me how I can run XFCE with Wayland please. I cannot? I need to switch to Gnome/KDE? Well bugger off. I hate both. Gnome 2 was OK, KDE 3.5.10 was incredible, KDE 4 was usable, KDE 5 - no, thank you.
EDIT: nevermind, I just read the links mentioning several key components don't work, sorry.
Originally posted by skeevy420 View PostI'd argue that localized impacts are better than global impacts.
Originally posted by skeevy420 View PostEven then, mass mining requires a lot of fossil fuels which are global impactors. Localized impacts can be mitigated and worked around...strip mines can be refilled, forests can be deforested and replanted in ways that allow wildlife time to migrate, etc; BUT, most all of that requires a lot of fossil fuels due to the heavy, industrialized machinery being fuel based. Electric chainsaws only go so far and are powered by fossils. It's hard to mitigate ice melting and flooding town away for a few thousand years. Dams and levees only go so far.
Originally posted by skeevy420 View PostI think that step one should be to switch mining and other heavy industrialization machinery to nuclear power as well as to implement conservation requirements for mining. We need (sort of) green tools to get green energy and green infrastructure and we need regulations to ensure the process of getting green energy/infrastructure is as green as we can make it.
Originally posted by skeevy420 View PostI wonder how well we could embed wireless charging systems into the road for vehicles? Cut out the need for so many batteries; so much mining for rare earth metals. Unfortunately, that falls into hippie free electricity so that'll never happen (in our lifetimes at least).Last edited by sinepgib; 20 June 2022, 02:48 PM.
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by JustK View Post
Haven't tested it, but something along those line.
Via XWayland:
Code:xhost +local:<account_name> XDG_SESSION_TYPE=x11 sudo --preserve-env=WAYLAND_DISPLAY,DISPLAY,XDG_SESSION_TYPE,XDG_RUNTIME_DIR -u <account_name> -H /usr/bin/firefox
Code:chmod 777 /run/user/$(id -u){,/wayland-1} sudo --preserve-env=WAYLAND_DISPLAY,DISPLAY,XDG_SESSION_TYPE,XDG_RUNTIME_DIR -u <account_name> -H /usr/bin/firefox
Code:firefox --ProfileManager
XWayland is fine, but not 'native' as such: but it is nice to know it is there.
The Wayland approach looks interesting, but anything that starts off with a chmod 777 disturbs my security hinky sense.
As for the throwaway comment: it is not for managing profiles, although it could be used for that with some security advantages; I just used it as an example. It is very useful to have multiple user accounts throwing output up on a common display.
- Likes 5
Comment
-
Originally posted by Hibbelharry View Post
Thats wrong and there are many examples. Going on you mentioned Windows. When windows totally changed it's UI when going from Win 3.11 to Win 95 that had a huge impact on it's success. When doing away the DOS platform going to a NT driven technology, that was a huge impact and made it even more successful. It's also not true that windows kept totally compatible to each and every legacy standard, there is lots of old software you won't get running on a current gen windows platform.
Sometimes you need to change and get rid of old thinking, even if it kills some current features. There has to be sane reasons but keeping everything in a standstill is no good idea at all.
By the way: In Wayland you're able to run many legacy stuff, too, thanks to XWayland.
Yes, we have xwayland but it's not a first class citizen.
So here's the deal. Wayland may be the future. It may even be something that should have existed over 20 years ago. But it didn't and we're still well behind in this area.
If you buy software AAA from company BBB today, it's company BBB's responsibility that the current version of the software continues to work throughout Windows upgrades. The Linux desktop is no where near the binary stability that can attract more vendors, resulting in less funding for DEs and substandard user experiences. What if the application flickers under Xwayland under mutter but works under Xwayland under another compositors? Even if the app is pure wayland, there is no guarantee it behaves the same under Weston/mutter/kwin/whatever.
I'm not bashing wayland and defending X11. I'm just saying it is far too late to be making changes.
- Likes 2
Comment
Comment