Mir Developer Pleads The Case "Why Mir"

[computerquip]

That might be your ideological stance on this issue but where is the practicallity? Where is the standard for recording cross-compositor? Come back to reality!

If you want a standard for compositors to share window textures, create one. There doesn't appear to be one yet anyways.

[carewolf]

Not sure about the first point but the rest has nothing to do with wayland but with the compositer.

That doesn't make it any less not done. This seems to escape Wayland developers but ecosystem is also develpment and road leading nowhere is useless

[TheBlackCat]

So still wayland does nothing but defragmant functionality while xorg-server does its job.

What is X11's job? Can you explain it in just a few sentences?

[quikee]

Ah, described. For that XML is not bad.

No XML is not a bad language for everything and yes, because it is described in it (and not used for transport) it is OK to use XML for that..

[lowflyer]

To me it seems to be as simple as Alan Griffith is now paying for the sins of Canonical. Poor guy indeed. But he should have known better. The facts have been on the table from day one of the Mir adventure.

Because the work has been funded by Canonical features that were important to Ubuntu Phone and Unity8 desktop have progressed faster and are more complete than others.

If Canonical would have invested that money into Wayland, these features would also have progressed faster and more complete.

When Mir was started we needed a mechanism for client-server communications (and Wayland wasn’t in the state it is today). We did something that worked well enough (libmirclient) and, because it’s just a small, intentionally isolated part of the whole, we could change later. We never imagined what a “big deal” that decision would become.

Alan confirms that Mir wasn't "in the state" either. Again, Alan could have implemented that for Wayland instead, making it "into the state".

I can relate to Alan's hurt feelings. But from my shoulders, he will not get more than a cold shrug: "You should have known better". That's the very essence of software development. I'd rather say: "Alan, get over it quickly - we need you for Wayland development."

[pininety]

That doesn't make it any less not done. This seems to escape Wayland developers but ecosystem is also develpment and road leading nowhere is useless

WTF are you talking about? Wayland support is actively developed and not a road leading nowhere (in contrast to Mir). Weston has the ability to do full screen recordings out of the box, so if you need that, good for you, just press Super+R and you get a screen recording without any third party needed.
If you are not using Weston, write a feature request for your compositor!

What you do not seem to grasp is the problems you get with third party screen recording software and why it is hard to define a standard way to do this without exposing your system to all the security problems we had with X and got right off with wayland. And at the moment, there is apparently to little interest in this area to solve this problem right now or then (or people have no clue yet how to solve it but I think it is the former).

Most of the problems you see in wayland is due to the tighter security it supplies. Doing things right takes some more time and afford then just giving all information and accesses to all clients and hope non is malicious.

[carewolf]

WTF are you talking about? Wayland support is actively developed and not a road leading nowhere (in contrast to Mir). Weston has the ability to do full screen recordings out of the box, so if you need that, good for you, just press Super+R and you get a screen recording without any third party needed.
If you are not using Weston, write a feature request for your compositor!

What you do not seem to grasp is the problems you get with third party screen recording software and why it is hard to define a standard way to do this without exposing your system to all the security problems we had with X and got right off with wayland. And at the moment, there is apparently to little interest in this area to solve this problem right now or then (or people have no clue yet how to solve it but I think it is the former).

Most of the problems you see in wayland is due to the tighter security it supplies. Doing things right takes some more time and afford then just giving all information and accesses to all clients and hope non is malicious.

Yes, Wayland is actively developed, but Wayland developers have been complaining no one was using their code as far back as 8 years ago. They basically build a road, but no facilities and then wondered why no one moved in. The mantra of it not being the job of Wayland to do Y, was just pointless, all of the tasks that needed to be done, needed to be done, and if Wayland wouldn't do them, something else would have to. Today we are slowly getting all the infrastructure around Wayland that was needed, but it has taken a long long time, and that is mostly the Wayland developers fault.

[nomadewolf]

Wayland is finished. All that is left is clients for Wayland (Gnome: Done, KDE: InProgress, etc, etc)

I know. Read my post. I was talking in past tense. At the time MIR was started, Wayland wasn't (past tense) ready. That's all i said.

[AlanGriffiths]

To me it seems to be as simple as Alan Griffiths is now paying for the sins of Canonical. Poor guy indeed. But he should have known better. The facts have been on the table from day one of the Mir adventure.

If Canonical would have invested that money into Wayland, these features would also have progressed faster and more complete.

I didn't make the decision, but you presuppose that everyone knew Wayland would succeed in building an ecosystem around it. (It is even /possible/ that the existence of Mir was key to that success. We cannot know.)

I've had a good five years working with some great developers and line managers, doing some work I found rewarding. I'm cool with that.

Alan confirms that Mir wasn't "in the state" either. Again, Alan could have implemented that for Wayland instead, making it "into the state".

I can relate to Alan's hurt feelings. But from my shoulders, he will not get more than a cold shrug: "You should have known better". That's the very essence of software development. I'd rather say: "Alan, get over it quickly - we need you for Wayland development."

Yes, things could have been done differently. But things could have turned out differently. Hindsight is great.

[TheBlackCat]

I know. Read my post. I was talking in past tense. At the time MIR was started, Wayland wasn't (past tense) ready. That's all i said.

It was just a few months away.