The Features Coming For Mir 0.26: EDID, New APIs, Client-Side Vsync, Performance

[polarathene]

no, wayland is working well on gnome in fedora already

It's my understanding features are still missing such as screen recording and remote view like VNC.

no, all compositors are internal projects but then you need client software and support of toolkits and you get more friction for trying to shove mir support to mesa or gtk

I think you misunderstood. Gnome and Wayland are separate projects and Wayland is about supporting multiple DE right? Where as Canonical just focuses on Mir for Ubuntu and their Unity DE, projects they just develop for themselves, I meant internal in that sense. They're not concerned about compatibility with other projects, there is no need to discuss standards or wait on anything, decisions and actions are made faster so less friction?

mir will have exactly same issue, only with canonical instead of redhat and canonical has less manpower

I'd imagine they're doing well enough that they can pay devs to support egl streams if required. I don't know what much about Mir and if it supports NVIDIA already or not. I'm sure they can get in touch directly with NVIDIA and work something out if not.

considering mir was touted as "will be finished much earlier than wayland" and running several years late, you are completely wrong

I don't know how I'm wrong if I didn't state that it'd be finished before wayland?(not that I consider wayland finished any time soon). I'm just saying they have a fair chance at getting Mir done to a point that it's a decent alternative if you use Ubuntu Unity. They have a reduced scope/friction, however you want to look at it, I thought what I'm trying to convey here is pretty obvious. I'm unbiased to either, happy to see progress. Ubuntu just seems to be trying to differentiate itself quite a bit, Apple did similar with their OS didn't they?

[Sonadow]

That has to be addressed on Wayland level. I.e. the protocol should handle screen capturing and corresponding security issues. Then all compositors will implement it in the common fashion, and there won't be a need for DE specific methods. In this sense, Mir isn't any better - it's just another method to add to the list.

Which right now the protocol does not.

The difference is that because Mir is the display server, every other DE and WM will be sitting on top of it, and there is only one Mir implementation as opposed to countless different display server implementation within the DE for Wayland.

If Mir becomes the next de-facto standard, tools like SSR and OBS can essentially be retooled to speak to Mir and work across multiple different DEs. On the other hand, if Wayland becomes the de-facto, we will still need to wait for the protocol to expose screen capturing to applications like SSR and OBS. Until then, those tools have to either implement DE-specific hooks or forgo compatibility completely; alternatively, DEs will have to provide their own screen recording and screencasting / desktop broadcast options. And let's be honest; the built-in Gnome recorder is downright dreadful.

[oldnordic]

Well, I don't understand why people care what Canonical do with their money and man power, they choose a different path, they want to do what is best for their product, it's pretty simple. as for my personal choice I will be using X for long time.

[Vistaus]

are chromeos or tizen not big enough?

Tizen is a small player currently (looking at marketshare). ChromeOS is a big player but I wasn't aware that it used Wayland. Thanks for clarifying that.

[Vistaus]

It's my understanding features are still missing such as screen recording and remote view like VNC.

He said it's working "well", he didn't say it's fully-featured yet.

[polarathene]

He said it's working "well", he didn't say it's fully-featured yet.

Bit of a pain but if you track back the quotes, original one I responded to was this:

Wayland is actually completely ready. It's rest of the stack that needs work done. Unless Shuttleworth injects some serious cash, Mir would never be done.

Saying that it was still missing some features or support from certain DE/Compositors, that it wasn't working well across the board, so not completely ready.

Pal chimed in to say Gnome works well on Wayland... For some sure, but if I can't record my desktop, remote in with VNC and such it's not well for me and furthermore it's not complete like the original guy I was responding to was claiming.

ChromeOS is a big player but I wasn't aware that it used Wayland. Thanks for clarifying that.

I'm not too familiar with ChromeOS, but I believe Wayland is used for Android support:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ients-ChromeOS

Beyond that X11 was replaced by their own alternative known as Freon:
http://iwf1.com/chrome-os-implements...n-ditches-x11/

[Vistaus]

Regarding the features you mention: yes, Wayland is not completely ready yet, but some things are (partly) implemented.

-Screen recording seems to work, at least in a basic way: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...reen_recording
"Currently the compositors implement at least basic functionality."

-Remote desktop seems to work on Arch, but you have to compile Wayland yourself with a certain flag: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...remote_display
"There was a merge of FreeRDP into weston in 2013, enabled via compile time switch."
Not sure if Fedora has compiled Wayland using said flag.

[TheBlackCat]

I think you misunderstood. Gnome and Wayland are separate projects and Wayland is about supporting multiple DE right? Where as Canonical just focuses on Mir for Ubuntu and their Unity DE, projects they just develop for themselves, I meant internal in that sense. They're not concerned about compatibility with other projects, there is no need to discuss standards or wait on anything, decisions and actions are made faster so less friction?

That was apparently the idea, but it didn't turn out that way in reality. Wayland is far, far ahead of Mir and the port of DEs to Wayland is progressing faster than the port of Unity to Mir.

One of the big reasons this isn't a real problem is that Wayland has an extension mechanism that allows individual projects to add what they need without having to wait for other projects to agree to it. Those extensions can be integrated into the standard Wayland later if there is enough desire, but they don't have to be.

I don't know how I'm wrong if I didn't state that it'd be finished before wayland?

Canonical claimed Mir would be ready in 2013. It is now 2017. So clearly the reduced scope and reduced friction isn't actually helping them compared to just using Wayland.

They have a reduced scope/friction, however you want to look at it, I thought what I'm trying to convey here is pretty obvious.

They also have reduced manpower, experience, and expertise. And as I said, the "friction" argument isn't really an issue due to Wayland allowing extensions, and it is debatable whether Mir even has a reduced scope since Canonical has claimed on multiple occasions that they want other DEs to support Mir eventually.

Ubuntu just seems to be trying to differentiate itself quite a bit, Apple did similar with their OS didn't they?

First, Apple has their own OS. Second, having something completely hidden from users is not a good way to differentiate yourself. Third, Canonical has ended up having to roll back a number of the differences Mir was supposed to have. For example one of the initial reasons was they wanted to use their own input stack, but they ended up just using the input stack developed for Wayland.

[shmerl]

If Mir becomes the next de-facto standard,

Well, it never will, since it's Ubuntu only. So, developers who are interested in standardizing things, should put some effort into making such thigns part of Wayland protocol.