KDE Wayland Is Not Yet Interested In NVIDIA's EGLStreams Approach

[bug77]

Yuck, I had two posts before the test not appear..... I refuse to type out my question again...... wth happened?

Stupid automatic filter is holding my reply, too.
Don't worry, Michael will approve them when he wakes up.

[SaucyJack]

Hopefully, an agreement can be reached. Without one, X11 will likely continue to reign for Nvidia users, which is a large percentage. At least as far as Linux gamers are concerned, Nvidia has 74% of the Linux GPU market (according to July GamingOnLinux survey results) and Nouveau is only sufficient for basic desktop productivity on inexpensive Nvidia GPUs without having reliable re-clocking support on newer cards; using Nouveau with high-end cards is a waste of money.

Nvidia won't have that much market share for long. And why support Nvidia when they hate open source and standards so much? There won't be an agreement outside of implementing EGLStreams, Nvidia made that perfectly clear.

[valeriodean]

I perfectly agree with Martin, and the time cannot be more right: now the AMD is in a perfect position (driver philosophy + the competitive new product) to take the place of nvidia for any linux gamers, also there are freesync compatible monitor everywhere now. On linux nobody has reasons to care about nvidia no more.

[jrch2k8]

Well, in my opinion nVidia should go with GBM and with MESA developers agree on implementing between both any missing function on GBM, simply because their "strong point" (EGLstream should be platform independant) is null for wayland in any real word usage scenario.

Windows: in theory WGL should understand EGL streams but we all know that is a big IF and Microsoft will never switch to wayland nor i expect DX11 will play nice with it, specially DX12 since is pretty tight with WDDM to the point only Windows 10 supports it and Vulkan is not officially supported either meaning WSI can have a tough time here.

Apple: Is clear they used open standards before because there was absolutely no other option for them but now they have their own graphic server and API (Metal) and their current stand is "Don't give a shit" full walled garden systems. I don't see Apple allowing wayland/vulkan apps in their store any time soon

BSD: their current stacks is a clusterfuck and is very unlikely they adopt wayland any time soon but this could be the only place EGLstreams could make sense but i see more likely they will write their true BSD licensed compositor with EGL streams than simply adopt a regular desktop with wayland

Linux: Most linux systems and compositors already support GBM and work well enough and nVidia users aren't big enough(nVidia gamers are a fraction of Intel total users) to justify having 2 different codepaths for wayland, plus nobody knows how well WSI will work with EGL streams/nVidia either.

Android / Chrome OS: is very clear to me that Google is very likely to use linux+ Wayland + Mesa(maybe even systemd) on their X86 versions of this OSes and nVidia is not a strong contender here either to justify Google adopt a second codepath either(most x86 systems will be Intel and to a smaller extent AMD since nVidia doesn't have an x86 license)

Mir: is moot for now, is not even released, Vulkan is in "likely to work" state and is not even on feature parity with wayland yet. In the future maybe canonical support both or neither or they write their own driver just because, with them you never know

So realisticaly nVidia should adapt GBM simply because Linux will be the only user for wayland ever and 99% of the /GPU driver/userbase/projects already uses it, hence for desktops/toolkits/etc. make no freaking sense to maintain both

[pal666]

correct title is Nobody Is Interested In NVIDIA's EGLStreams Approach

[pal666]

Basically, Martin is saying he's doing exactly what Nvidia did. He will adopt a solution that requires him to maintain a single code path.

nvidia will needs only one gbm codepath to support wayland

Also keep in mind that Wayland does not require GBM, that's just what Weston uses. And while GBM is tied to Mesa and is a standard in the Linux/BSD world, EGLStream is tied to EGL which also covers Windows.

also keep in mind that wayland does not care about windows in general or about nvidia on windows in particular

[pal666]

They won't support Mir, ..., and they seem to have issues with closed-source drivers

nobody will support mir and everyone has issues with blobs

[pal666]

X11 will likely continue to reign for Nvidia users

nobody is interested in what will reign for nvidia windows driver users

[schmidtbag]

nobody will support mir and everyone has issues with blobs

Last time I checked, GNOME supports Mir. Most people don't care about blobs. Of the ones who do, most of them only bitch out of principle (in other words, "it's bad because it isn't open-source", regardless of how well it cooperates with the rest of the system). The only people who have a right to actually complain about blobs are the ones whose work is hindered because of it. For example, the KDE devs.

[pal666]

Basically, Martin is saying he's doing exactly what Nvidia did. He will adopt a solution that requires him to maintain a single code path.

i want to emphasize that you are basically fucked up by nvidia here. nvidia wants a 'solution' of 'every compositor has one codepath more just for nvidia', while rest of the world wants a solution of 'everyone has one gbm codepath'. nvidia is free to adopt one gbm codepath with everyone else