GNOME Shell 3.10 Is Ready To Shine On Wayland

[intellivision]

I have no proof. I just don't see them using something different than Ubuntu for Chrome OS, since AFAIK is a modded Ubuntu with a custom DE. Getting picky means extra maintenance for something it's not worth. I don't think there is a sizable amount of Android users interested in full fledged DEs, so I don't care about Android. And again, I haven't said they DOES, I said I expect them to. Those are two very different things.

Oh, so you don't have proof, thanks for telling us all about that before those previous posts of personal bias conjecture.
And regardless of whether you care about those platforms or not, they currently make up most of the marketshare which uses the Linux kernel so their preference of init systems does matter, unless more fragmentation is desirable.

On another front, developers in the free software world are either paid by someone interested in something (Red Hat will not pay support for something their users don't have, and guess what Red Hat distributions don't use) or work for free, because of their own interest. On neither case should you expect to support anything they or the ones paying them don't use. They accept patches, they do code revision, and that's as far as their legitimate responsibility with anyone else goes. You want a feature? Great, write a patch. It will go through revision, and if it doesn't screw anything it will probably get accepted. That's how it works. You are not a coder? Well, then, you can start a kickstarter (or directly pay up), and ask someone to code for you in exchange of money. Else, quit giving orders, you are nobody's boss.

I am a user, I am a consumer, I have every right to stop donating money to the Gnome project and move onto a different desktop environment.
I have already done that actually, I didn't want to but the Gnome team forced me to play that card a while ago. Their lack of consideration for FreeBSD was what did it for me in the end. If the Gnome team only see Linux as a future, that's their problem, but they won't be making another cent off me, nor can they bank on any positive word of mouth from me.

[jrch2k8]

So what you're trying to say is that Gnome is the only desktop environment to make the inept decision to support only logind without any alternative.
Good to see that you've reiterated my point there.

nope my point is KDE already took the first step POLKIT aka Policy Kit with logind, in 5 will probably be as dependant as gnome and most will follow because of VT_config kill in future kernel + consolekit must goes out of distros soon since is bitrotten

[mrugiero]

Oh, so you don't have proof, thanks for telling us all about that before those previous posts of personal bias conjecture.
And regardless of whether you care about those platforms or not, they currently make up most of the marketshare which uses the Linux kernel so their preference of init systems does matter, unless more fragmentation is desirable.

First, show me where there is personal bias that isn't obviously implicit in the "I'd expect" statement, please. All I said, aside from that expectation, was argument upon argument for such beliefs.
Second, it's not relevant to GNOME. If you are not supposed to use other DEs, like is the case for Android (which is kind of a locked down OS for mobile, and if you really want to change things you are better off running a distribution suited to that end), GNOME devs have no reason to care about it. It's like suggesting they should care about bringing support for the PS4 OS, because it's based on FreeBSD.
Also, the fragmentation will stay there until nobody else exists, and then you say it's bad to have all the eggs on the same basket. Choose your position before starting an argument. You want to avoid fragmentation, or you want to have your eggs divided between several baskets? If you want to completely avoid fragmentation, the less featured approaches are the obvious candidates to go down and the most featured should be adopted, with the exception of licensing problems (and we were talking about Linux, so the fact BSD guys expects everything to be BSD licensed is for another argument). The options that come to mind are either upstart (GPL with CLA, and AFAIK less featured) or systemd (LGPL). I heard Gentoo uses something else, but I don't recall its name so I can't look for its license.

I am a user, I am a consumer, I have every right to stop donating money to the Gnome project and move onto a different desktop environment.
I have already done that actually, I didn't want to but the Gnome team forced me to play that card a while ago. Their lack of consideration for FreeBSD was what did it for me in the end. If the Gnome team only see Linux as a future, that's their problem, but they won't be making another cent off me, nor can they bank on any positive word of mouth from me.

Yes, you have all of those rights. The right you don't have is to tell them what they have to work on.
At most, you could expect (maybe propose) them to have targeted donations, so donors can tell them for which feature/support they are paying. If they don't, and they don't work on what you need, you are free to quit donating, if you happened to do so.

EDIT: Sorry about the eggs and the basket, I thought that post was from you, but I revisited and it was Vim_User there.

[jrch2k8]

Oh, so you don't have proof, thanks for telling us all about that before those previous posts of personal bias conjecture.
And regardless of whether you care about those platforms or not, they currently make up most of the marketshare which uses the Linux kernel so their preference of init systems does matter, unless more fragmentation is desirable.


I am a user, I am a consumer, I have every right to stop donating money to the Gnome project and move onto a different desktop environment.
I have already done that actually, I didn't want to but the Gnome team forced me to play that card a while ago. Their lack of consideration for FreeBSD was what did it for me in the end. If the Gnome team only see Linux as a future, that's their problem, but they won't be making another cent off me, nor can they bank on any positive word of mouth from me.

BSD have the tools to implement an equivalent to logind and cgroups with jails is not gnome fault but BSD ppl laziness anyway enjoy your BSD desktop, i heard is not as terrible as before[good for certain server operations tho]

i don't understant why BSD ppl get anal when linux devs decide not support BSD, when all BSD projects give a flying fuck about GNU/Linux and are in fact removing/duplicating/avoiding features to get as far away possible from Linux toolchains, anyway i care about linux and as bsd devs do, i don't give a flying fuck if all DE go Linux only and became absolutely imcompatible with BSD

[finalzone]

I am a user, I am a consumer, I have every right to stop donating money to the Gnome project and move onto a different desktop environment.
I have already done that actually, I didn't want to but the Gnome team forced me to play that card a while ago. Their lack of consideration for FreeBSD was what did it for me in the end. If the Gnome team only see Linux as a future, that's their problem, but they won't be making another cent off me, nor can they bank on any positive word of mouth from me.

That is FreeBSD problem, not Gnome nor other desktop environment. How could the latter know when none of FreeBSD representative actively participated in latest Gnome or DE development?

[bkor]

Which in the real world doesn't make that much a difference: "Hey, you want to suspend that machine when using Gnome? Sorry , but you have to change to logind. Oh, and to systemd. And when you are at it, you can also use journald and whatevertheycomeupwithd."

Suspend doesn't have anything to do with logind.

This is the point I am making. You know shit all, don't read, make statements and the first point you make is incorrect.

E.g. you claim yet another thing, that powering down is not the same as suspend. Powering down is good enough for OpenBSD. Whoops, you didn't read yet again and you're proven wrong yet again. Then using selective quoting to ignore bits you don't like.

If you run a distribution and want to offer choice, then you have to do a bit more in the integration part. There is no free lunch for you! Offering suspend is still possible, just that the burden has shifted.

Expecting you yet again to selectively quote and make up yet another claim!

[bkor]

They weren't complaining about it before systemd came along and tried to assimilate the Linux space.
And it looks as though the largest players such as Google and Canonical will not be moving their platforms' bases to systemd either, so now the workload of porting Gnome to those platforms has increased exponentially.

Google and Canonical as companies have nothing to do with GNOME. Related, Android as well.

[bkor]

Where "increased exponentially" equals writing a backend to upstart or whatever they want to use for the needed features, if it provides the features expected. Even more, since there was a ConsoleKit backend for the same features (which bitrot, because nobody was willing to maintain it when they called for it), I'm pretty sure the work on the abstraction front is already done. Only thing lacking is the actual backend.

There is no backend for something like that. GNOME consists of a lot of modules. Each module has to work together with other modules. Various things already are an abstraction. What a backend would do is add yet another layer of abstraction. Thereby limiting what can be done to the lowest featureset across all the possibilities. That's not what makes sense.

As said before, people only want differences and complain here. Don't listen, don't do anything, don't have experience, don't read. They do twist things so their opinion stays the same.

[scjet]

...
Also, before GUIs existed, there was no one complaining they didn't have one. But try to give a random user a CLI, and look at the reaction.

ok, well if we can remeber no-gui's (dos), then we also can remeber the "fact" that there were already GUI's, even before "dos", or atleast around that same time.
aka apple, amiga, commodore, atari, ..., comon' it is what people/Users' wanted.

If Microsoft had not have come up with a Window gui way back when, then they would have been thrown out of the PC explosion looong ago. -we all know it.
And, it's exactly becuase of lots of people "complaining", why Microsoft was forced to "develop" Windoze ! -it's what the Microsoft User's wanted.

Same holds tru for Linux. It's not what the Linux "Dev's" want, or think they know what the User want's, and if they do, -then they be better be dam right !?
It's the User that ultimately decides the end, or atleast it should be, generally speaking.
If you try and "force" things on the User's, or companies,...whoever, (like Gnome3,..., pulseaudio, systemD), whether it is "free", or not, then you will, most likely in the end, LOSE them.

Hey, Gnome3 "gambled" too far away from Gnome2, and they lost, so far. and who decided that? -the Linux "User's" -that's who.

[bkor]

If you try and "force"

GNOME handed out git commit rights to MATE developers. Since, MATE has taken over the maintenance of at least one module. GNOME also releases loads of code as either GPL or LGPL. We are furthermore heavily involved in freedesktop.org, ensuring that various infrastructure bits can be used by any desktop environment.

So in short: There is no force, also no "force" going on. People within GNOME go out of their way to improve the desktop experience no matter which desktop environment you use.

Aside from this, we did not write systemd (this is also the correct way to write it).

Apologies for being factual :P