GNOME Shell 3.10 Is Ready To Shine On Wayland

[Akka]

Who cares about the market anyway? Let me guess... you're from Cuba or North Corea, if not you're gonna like living there.

Market share is worthless if you don't get anything from it like canonical.
Androids market share is obviously not worthless but as it is not a concurrent and live in its own ecosystem different to the classical desktop or server linux. Gnome also don't use the same init as windows 7, also a different ecosystem.....

[Akka]

Who cares about market share?

+1 to the troll!

[pakf]

Who cares about market share?

Who cares about the market anyway? Let me guess... you're from Cuba or North Corea, if not you're gonna like living there.

[grok]

Android uses only the linux kernel and doesn't give a shit about everything else.
It's really totally unrelated to all the linux distros like debian, slackware, fedora etc.
It's like complaining than GEM or Desqview don't use Windows 3.1 APIs, even though they all run on top of DOS.

[intellivision]

Android will also not use GNOME. Android will also not use KDE, or OpenRC, or Upstart. Similarly, Windows will not use systemd, KDE, OpenRC, or Upstart. Talking about Android is really interesting, but kind of pointless in relation to GNOME using systemd or logind or not.

OpenRC only got that cgroup feature after a Gentoo GNOME packager added it. Furthermore, OpenRC Bugzilla has bugs about it. Also, I think you're confusing logind and systemd here, because AFAIK, cgroup handling belongs to systemd, not logind. This is really something minor, logind is more about tracking logins/sessions. Further it seems in future it would handle VT switching or some replacement for this.

Android and Chrome OS are the biggest users of the Linux kernel that consumers actively use, that fact won't be changing for some time.
If systemd wants to become THE Linux init system, it has to be used on these platforms to get a majority of the Linux market share.

[mrugiero]

Android will also not use GNOME. Android will also not use KDE, or OpenRC, or Upstart. Similarly, Windows will not use systemd, KDE, OpenRC, or Upstart. Talking about Android is really interesting, but kind of pointless in relation to GNOME using systemd or logind or not.

I wasted post after post after post trying to explain here that Android is irrelevant in a GNOME discussion because of that fact, and the user I was arguing with (I don't remember who it was by now) didn't seem to pay a bit of attention to that fact.

[bkor]

I never said Android will use Upstart, I just said they will never transfer to systemd, and I will add it's because of their own requirement to keep their entire userland under an Apache2 license, something which systemd could never do under its current license.

And OpenRC has doesn't have all features, of systemd, it does have features that Gnome uses in logind such as the ability to kill all processes in a service's cgroup, here: http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitwe...d4dc831eeb79c3

Android will also not use GNOME. Android will also not use KDE, or OpenRC, or Upstart. Similarly, Windows will not use systemd, KDE, OpenRC, or Upstart. Talking about Android is really interesting, but kind of pointless in relation to GNOME using systemd or logind or not.

OpenRC only got that cgroup feature after a Gentoo GNOME packager added it. Furthermore, OpenRC Bugzilla has bugs about it. Also, I think you're confusing logind and systemd here, because AFAIK, cgroup handling belongs to systemd, not logind. This is really something minor, logind is more about tracking logins/sessions. Further it seems in future it would handle VT switching or some replacement for this.

[RahulSundaram]

I never said Android will use Upstart, I just said they will never transfer to systemd, and I will add it's because of their own requirement to keep their entire userland under an Apache2 license, something which systemd could never do under its current license. And OpenRC has doesn't have all features, of systemd, it does have features that Gnome uses in logind such as the ability to kill all processes in a service's cgroup, here: http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitwe...d4dc831eeb79c3

You are overstating something here. They don't have a mandatory requirement to keep everything in userspace under the Apache license and in specific cases they have accepted even GPL'ed user space ex: bluetooth interfaces and systemd a while back moved from GPL to LGPL so they could take it and none of the other components would be affected. The interfaces are more important here than the specific implementation of the init system. If openrc or upstart or whatever else gains more of the features and exposes it via the same interfaces, there isn't a problem. Of course, standardizing on the implementation would be nice but standardizing on the interfaces is good enough.

[intellivision]

So Android will use Upstart? Show me some evidence! Or you mean you can put Ubuntu/Unity on an Android phone? Is not really the same.

For your "artificial dependency", please show me where OpenRC has the features systemd has. E.g. login session, logind, vt switching, etc. Why would every Desktop Environment reimplement things multiple times instead of just relying on systemd? Note that Enlightment is also doing the same, so?

I never said Android will use Upstart, I just said they will never transfer to systemd, and I will add it's because of their own requirement to keep their entire userland under an Apache2 license, something which systemd could never do under its current license.

And OpenRC has doesn't have all features, of systemd, it does have features that Gnome uses in logind such as the ability to kill all processes in a service's cgroup, here: http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitwe...d4dc831eeb79c3

[bkor]

Why implement multiple Desktop Environments instead of just relying on one? Why implementing multiple distros instead of just relying on one? Why have multiple browsers, text editors, programming languages, ...?

That is not what I was asking. Why would a desktop environment rely on multiple init systems. Basically adding yet another abstraction layer? What you're saying that multiple exists. Cool, there are multiple and systemd offers the most, is used on most distributions and most importantly, most/all of the GNOME developers know it and use it. If you want another init system, then do some work and add support for something alternative. At the moment, there is still nothing going on within ConsoleKit, still no progress with separating logind from systemd. Various distributions rather add a systemd dependency than to do development.

As said often before, often also to you: talk is cheap.