Originally posted by Luke_Wolf
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Shuttleworth On Mir: "A Fantastic Piece of Engineering"
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Originally posted by ba7a7chy View PostThis is getting out of proportion, it is still LINUX it is still OPEN SOURCE, why do you care so much about X, Mir or Wayland ? who cares ? I want this dist you want the other this is all the idea of opensource software the choice is yours, I want Ubuntu, you can have Kubuntu or W/E, really guys this sounds like a bad opera from the viva channel.....
In the old community around Ubuntu, Canonical was a part of that community. Today Ubuntu is some sort of community around Canonical instead. But it really doesn't matter for me as I switched from Ubuntu a bunch of years ago. At least not before they began with there push to split the linux graphic stack....
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Originally posted by AdamW View PostSo the shape of the graph is 'very slow growth, followed by a shorter period of comparatively rapid growth, followed by zero growth'. And the numbers are still _really small_ - we're playing in the sandbox between 0% and 1%, here.
Originally posted by AdamW View PostI don't think anyone would dispute that, for a period of time, Ubuntu emerged as the pre-eminent desktop Linux distribution, as RHL and Mandrake and even (very briefly) Gentoo had done before; the question I was asking is 'what has Ubuntu achieved with that pre-eminence?'
Originally posted by AdamW View PostUbuntu's great showing on EC2 isn't so much to do with Ubuntu's merits as an OS as it is to do with the good job Ubuntu has done in producing, testing, releasing and promoting EC2 images.
Originally posted by AdamW View PostWhich is obviously a great thing to do, and they've done it well. But it means that you can't necessarily generalize from the EC2 numbers. You can look at them on their own as a great achievement for Ubuntu, though, which they absolutely are.
Originally posted by chithanh View PostThe same is currently happening for servers. EC2 is somewhat ahead of the curve because it is not as inert as SOHO or even enterprise sectors, but clearly shows where we are heading.
One more data point how relevant OpenShift (or any of the other cloud operators) is in comparison to EC2 is the Freelance.co.uk Fast 50 report for Q4, Amazon AWS is now #6 top trending item. OpenShift is not even an also-ran.
Certainly your employer pays a considerable part of the $1.3bn/year income directly to one of the analyst houses which will answer questions about market share and trends. Especially the pace at which stuff is moving into the cloud and how long it takes for the slow-moving enterprise market to reflect the operating system trends.
Originally posted by AdamW View PostThis is not an assertion I've ever seen backed with any hard numbers. Ubuntu is typically very vague about its actual usage statistics, and few other distros even try to release numbers; Fedora releases some, with an extensive caveat attached about how they could be utterly wrong. It's very, very hard to count Linux distro users reliably.
Ubuntu is used by 69.3% of respondents, almost twice as many as the next biggest distro, Debian which has 35.5% (multiple distros can be named). And this is among visitors of a Linux conference, who are enthusiasts or professionals with 30% participating moderately or heavily and 75% at least occasionally in the Linux community. It seems plausible that among general users, the share of Ubuntu is even higher.
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Originally posted by chithanh View PostYou should not think for a second that users are dumb sheep that simply follow marketing or are stuck with Ubuntu/Windows/... because they don't know any better. Users choose Ubuntu because the software and ecosystem fit their needs most.
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Originally posted by prodigy_ View PostYou should not think for a second that users are stuck with Ubuntu/Windows/... because the software and ecosystem fit their needs most. Users don't know squat about ecosystems. They use Windows because it came pre-installed with their PCs and because that's what they've been using for <insert number> years. And they "choose" Ubuntu because that's the only name from the Linux world they've ever heard.
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Mir advantages
Mir advantages:
LGPL with CLA is better than MIT. (MIT License is stupid)
C++ Language (with boost)
C is an old language.Is not capable to produce Big software like a graphics stack.I dont like C++ (complex language),but is better than C.
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Originally posted by prodigy_ View PostUsers don't know squat about ecosystems.
Examples:
1) Firefox. Ecosystem is mainly defined by the myriad of extensions. Users who wanted to switch to another browser (like Chrome) found it difficult at first because the extensions which they were used to didn't exist yet
2) Android. Ecosystem is mostly defined by apps. People like to buy Samsung Android phones, but almost nobody buys Samsung Windows phones, despite price and hardware being very similar. Most of the important popular apps are on both platforms, but few of the important non-popular ones are on WP. Like the app from your local public transport company or sports team.
3) Ubuntu. Ecosystem is defined by the packages. Want the latest release of some software? Find it readily availabe in an Ubuntu PPA. Banks are distributing their homebanking software precompiled and dynamically linked against libraries that are currently in Ubuntu, causing grief to users and developers of other distros.
Originally posted by johnc View PostOhh stop if you think a non-tech user could manage any Linux distro, let alone a non-Ubuntu one.
This leads to the remarkable situation that some of those people install DD-WRT/OpenWrt on their routers (because it doesn't crash, allows bittorrent without causing a gaming lag, etc.) while exclusively using Windows on their desktop computer.
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Originally posted by johnc View PostTo me it sounded like the comments about Wayland input mechanisms came from ignorance. Which, yes, is disturbing that they don't have a complete handle on how Wayland works, but that could also point to one of the overarching problems. For whatever reason they weren't interested in Wayland or weren't communicating or didn't know how to get information or just didn't care. Generally these signals can be picked up if people are paying attention.
I suspect the stuff they were doing "in private" came from things learned from their Ubuntu-for-Android and other touch research, but they didn't want to come forward with anything publicly until they knew they could commit to something on their own. A few weeks ago someone at Canonical mentioned that they were considering their own display server solution. I think we all expected something in-house and Google-like for their mobile OS. That they're extending it to the desktop as well is surprising, and where the real potential for failure is IMO.
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Originally posted by RahulSundaram View PostWhy should other people pick up on signals instead of relying on explicit communication? If you tell everyone you are running a community project instead of a commercial product, that isn't the healthy way to sustain it. I don't think people will care if this was some mobile only solution. I mean, Android has been running with their own for years and noone really said anything about that but the negative response is not about just presenting an alternative. If you look at the reaction even within their own project from volunteers for several years, it is self evident.
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