KDE's Nate Graham On X11 Being A Bad Platform & The Wayland Future

[Hibbelharry]

wasn't this literally just added a couple weeks ago, and completely irrelevant to any wayland protocol? if we are satisfied with hacking something together, adding X support wont be too hard

Actually hacking something together has been done in Xorg countless times and it's one of the reasons why Xorg is so heavily broken right now in terms of maintainability. You're only able to do that so many times, after that you're lost: welcome to X11.

And you're wrong in many ways, because beneath that wayland HDR work is a lot of work on kernel and other vital parts to realize some kind of a standard which hasn't existed before.

[avis]

A funny thing: I've never insulted people here personally yet in this topic there's a staggering number of words like "moron" and "idiot" thrown at people who just want to use their PC to the fullest.

I don't understand why Wayland, while being so cool/modern/forward looking/cruft free, requires so much insults thrown at people to prove its superiority. Normally when something is actually better, people gladly accept and start to use it. There are no thousand replies discussions.

And of course, according to @tilderarrow and Michael it's perfectly ok to insult others if they don't like Wayland.

And weirdly Wayland opponents keep their cool. What a weird community we have here.

[Damnshock]

wasn't this literally just added a couple weeks ago, and completely irrelevant to any wayland protocol? if we are satisfied with hacking something together, adding X support wont be too hard

it was implemented not long ago, true. That is irrelevant though.

What gives you the impression it was "hacked together"?

Until this: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayla...ge_requests/14 is finished, Kwin decided to implement a small protocol (used by Valve already). More info here: https://zamundaaa.github.io/wayland/...in-plasma.html

[Quackdoc]

it was implemented not long ago, true. That is irrelevant though.

What gives you the impression it was "hacked together"?

Until this: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayla...ge_requests/14 is finished, Kwin decided to implement a small protocol (used by Valve already). More info here: https://zamundaaa.github.io/wayland/...in-plasma.html

Actually hacking something together has been done in Xorg countless times and it's one of the reasons why Xorg is so heavily broken right now in terms of maintainability. You're only able to do that so many times, after that you're lost: welcome to X11.

And you're wrong in many ways, because beneath that wayland HDR work is a lot of work on kernel and other vital parts to realize some kind of a standard which hasn't existed before.

I am familiar with the work being done, but so far what mostly constitutes the HDR color work being done is setting gamut (which we can already do) and setting transfer function to a PQ transfer, which isn't super hard to do. but none of this is *x11* support or *wayland* support. this is the compositor sending HDR data to the display, what we need is *wayland* support and *x11* support (the latter which may or may not actually happen). but until wayland the protocol supports HDR. it's more of a hack then anything else.

This is not to diminish the colormanagement work kwin devs are putting in, they seem to have support for at least some kind of inverse tonemapping which is quite important. They have been for sure making great strides, but this is not "wayland HDR support"

[Monsterovich]

Nobody stops you from using wlroot or even Weston. And wlroot is/will be the base for pretty much every distro that's not gnome or KDE.

You still don't seem to understand the meaning of the word "unified".

[t1r0nama]

kwin on wayland does have HDR.

So does android or chrome os both are using linux kernel, so what? That proves my point about fragmentation in linux world getting worse thanks to wayland.

Do not all of you get me wrong. I am dwm user on arch. I tried switching to wayland long time ago. I have installed dwl. But i have far too many problems with it. Too many things are broken/do not work well. When/If wayland will be ready i'll make a switch. I did switch to pipewire from pulseaudio recently. Before that i simply could not use pipewire. Wayland seems to take much more time to be adopted. Until then i'll just continue using X.

I do not care about X or Wayland i just need video output on my laptop to use it for work and hobby. It just needs to work. Today X just works, wayland does not.

EDIT: i checked and wayland does not have HDR not even on kwin! There is no HDR yet on X or on Wayland.

[t1r0nama]

I don't understand why Wayland, while being so cool/modern/forward looking/cruft free, requires so much insults thrown at people to prove its superiority. Normally when something is actually better, people gladly accept and start to use it. There are no thousand replies discussions.

Simple explanation would be that it simply is not what you think it is You have said yourself what would happen if it was that cool/modern/forward looking/cruft free.

Wayland opponent does not need to insult anyone It is a fact that wayland does not work for average linux user as good as X does. Heck i am on linux since 2008 and it does not work for me too.

[bug77]

EDIT: i checked and wayland does not have HDR not even on kwin! There is no HDR yet on X or on Wayland.

There is, on Kwin+Wayland. I have ticked that box yesterday, it did something with the colors (couldn't say more than that, my monitors sucks at HDR).

[CHECK_12345]

I cant even disable the forced compositing in Wayland to get lower overhead and lower input latency like in Xorg

So I am staying on using Xorg with no compositors to get the lowest overhead and lowest input latency

[Quackdoc]

I cant even disable the forced compositing in Wayland to get lower overhead and lower input latency like in Xorg

So I am staying on using Xorg with no compositors to get the lowest overhead and lowest input latency

to disable that, simply open an app fullscreen and it will use direct scannout which is more or less the same thing. currently the only latency overhead is no tearing, which has been solved (on most compositors?) for wayland