Vulkan 1.0.25 Moves To Single-Branch Model, Adds NVIDIA Extensions

[grenadecx]

They did it again! NVIDIA is terrible!

The new standard is not yet established and NVIDIA is already trying to break out of it. They are deliberately creating the same mess of vendor-extensions that we have under OpenGL again. They have not learned anything.

You do know that Nvidia is not alone in adding extensions for Vulkan? AMD have already done it as well.

[starshipeleven]

They did it again! AMD is terrible!

The new standard is not yet established and AMD is already trying to break out of it. They are deliberately creating the same mess of vendor-extensions that we have under OpenGL again. They have not learned anything.

Fixed.

[lowflyer]

Fixed.

Sorry to step on your toes. Didn't know you're a NVIDIA disciple.

[lowflyer]

You do know that Nvidia is not alone in adding extensions for Vulkan? AMD have already done it as well.

I don't think that "the others do it too" is a good argument for doing it in the first place. At the moment it stands 6 Nvidia versus 5 AMD. Not that I approve of AMD in doing so.

I am sick and tired of vendors that in the first round claim "Yes we are fully OpenGL compliant". Only to find out later that they extensively (mis-)used Nvidia extensions without fall back so it would run only on a few select Nvidia cards...

[starshipeleven]

Sorry to step on your toes. Didn't know you're a Truth disciple.

Fixed.

I mean really, inform yourself. AMD has vendor-specific extensions too, and it's normal and intended as they were the ones that drafted the standard.

[starshipeleven]

I don't think that "the others do it too" is a good argument for doing it in the first place.

Cool and I agree, point is that they drafted the standard so they could add them, so it's not exactly unexpected if they add them.

I am sick and tired of vendors that in the first round claim "Yes we are fully OpenGL compliant". Only to find out later that they extensively (mis-)used Nvidia extensions without fall back so it would run only on a few select Nvidia cards...

This happens also without vendor extensions, as NVIDIA driver is more tolerant in many corners and programs developed on NVIDIA cards by idiots that don't avoid them will need a bunch of hacks later to run decently in AMD.

[lowflyer]

Cool and I agree, point is that they drafted the standard so they could add them, so it's not exactly unexpected if they add them.

Well, your correct: "it's not exactly unexpected". But given that Vulkan is just a couple of months old, it really looks to me that they couldn't wait to get their "special stuff" in. IMHO they could have tried harder to get that standardized. And I'm also not taking AMD our of that equation.

[starshipeleven]

it really looks to me that they couldn't wait to get their "special stuff" in.

What part of "THEY drafted the standard so they could add them" you did not understand?
Adding them has always been part of the plan.

IMHO they could have tried harder to get that standardized. And I'm also not taking AMD our of that equation.

Who would have tried harder? Both AMD and NVIDIA want them. Intel might use this too in the future when their GPUs stop sucking.

I know that a standard is better for consumer, but you need to understand that competition in these extensions is also good for consumer too.

That's how it works on openGL. As others said, nothing prevents other vendors from offering the same extensions (with same name) on their hardware too, and just as with OpenGL the most liked extensions will become mandatory in the certification for a new version. This is just a bit of competition in the bleeding edge features.

The bigger issue of OpenGL were some "interested parties" (companies developing CAD and similar programs) that wanted to keep the OpenGL features set in stone forever because otherwise they would have to change their softwares.

That was eventually fixed with Vulkan, that is designed by and for companies that deal with gaming and consumer markets.

[lowflyer]

What part of "THEY drafted the standard so they could add them" you did not understand?

Look, english is not my mother tongue. Could it be that you don't understand what I'm trying to say?

I know that a standard is better for consumer, but you need to understand that competition in these extensions is also good for consumer too.

You're contradicting yourself. I'm trying to tell that creating incompatible extensions will just shut up competition. This is the current status with OpenGL.

The bigger issue of OpenGL were some "interested parties" (companies developing CAD and similar programs) that wanted to keep the OpenGL features set in stone forever because otherwise they would have to change their softwares.

That was eventually fixed with Vulkan, ...

... and the same companies continue to play the same old game the same old way. (look at my first post in this thread. "They did it again!" was where I started off.)

[starshipeleven]

You're contradicting yourself. I'm trying to tell that creating incompatible extensions will just shut up competition.

And what I'm saying to you is that these extensions aren't incompatible, but just normal competition. Other vendors can offer the same extension with the same name on their hardware too.

This is the current status with OpenGL.

Uh, no. On OpenGL the main issue is that you were bunching together professional application developers with game developers.
And so far the professional application developers won and it remained a semi-prehistoric piece of garbage for way too much time, and even now some of that retrocompatibility is silly in many points.

... and the same companies continue to play the same old game the same old way. (look at my first post in this thread. "They did it again!" was where I started off.)

Because it's not wrong per-se.
What is wrong is cutting corners on the driver's compliance to the spec (NVIDIA), so that even programs developed on NVIDIA hardware and targeting non-vendor openGL extensions still fail hard on other vendor's GPUs because their drivers are more strict.