Originally posted by dungeon
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Khronos Debuts OpenGL ES 3.2 & New GL Extensions, But No Vulkan This Week
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Originally posted by dungeon View Post
Who are we? Anandtech article mentioned everybody to define their feature set... that sounds to me like Ancurio's Vulkan or Dungeon's Vulkan, etc...
We'll basically get back to the situation of "well, everybody on Windows is using D3D, so I guess that's what I'm gonna learn and use as well", treating OpenGL/Vulkan as that exotic thing you might have to learn for your Android ports.
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Originally posted by zagoti View Post
Is it now sure that Vulkan will come to the PS4? Or are they talking about the Steam Machines?
For now, the only platforms which are confirmed to get implementations are Linux/SteamOS (Mir, Wayland, X11), Windows, Android 5.0 and Tizen.
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Originally posted by kaprikawn View PostI wonder whether it's worth it adding tessellation to Android. I remember when they were announcing DX10/D3D 10, it was being sold as a method of creating geometry almost for free, or at least with using a disproportionally small amount of resources compared to rendering using polygons and other <= DX9 methods.
But as far as I can tell that sales pitch has not been realised. Look at the clusterfunk that was the DX10 patch for Crysis 2, performance took a HUGE hit in implementing tessellation. And while I appreciate that may have been an extreme case, I can't see other implementations being good. I'm pretty sure Arkham Knight uses tessellation quite a lot, another mess on PC.
I'd like to know how phones, which are roughly between Xbox and 360 power right now for flagship handsets, are expected to take advantage of a feature that, so far, is bringing modern GFX cards to their knees. Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe they're just laying the groundwork for the future, we all know how long it takes for ES versions to be utilised, most things are still using ES 2 as far as I know.
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Originally posted by johnc View PostAlthough OpenGL / Vulkan are cross-platform, the big issue is that it is essentially tied to only Android / Linux. It has no future on any other platform.
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Originally posted by Deavir View PostWhy do those have futures but OpenGL doesn't?
If we had developers writing once in well optimized modern OpenGL and criticizing platforms with subpar GL support we would be winning. As it is, as long as people don't care that their graphics APIs are locking them to one platform and imposing tremendous porting overhead to ever ship elsewhere, we have no room to grow. MS and Apple can bribe developers to use their shit and gain mindshare, but there is no big corporate entity with a vested profit motive in Vulkan adoption the way MS / Apple want developers stuck with them.
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Originally posted by Deavir View PostOpenGL isn't gaining ground because it is tied to anything. It is gaining because it is available on all the platforms. Metal is available only on OSX and iOS. DirectX 12 is available only on XB1 and Windows 10. Why do those have futures but OpenGL doesn't?
Hardly anybody is going to release Vulkan games for Windows. And it looks like Vulkan won't even be supported on Mac, nor any other modern version of OpenGL.
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Originally posted by johnc View PostEngines will implement Vulkan like they do OpenGL now. That in itself won't mean much. Developers would still have to build their games around that, and, as of right now, very few probably will. Most of the interest from game developers is in DX12. I think Vulkan games will be a lot like we see OpenGL games today... sort of after-thought ported versions.
It really comes down to the target platform. The only target platform of interest for OpenGL / Vulkan right now is Android. And the future of Android gaming is sort of... unknown.
All of the major Engine companies, Epic, Unity, Valve and others have committed to shipping Vulkan support. And Android has confirmed they will support it. So, all those games that use those engines will be able to offer support for Vulkan as well.
And why is the future of Android gaming unknown? Games are the most profitable app category on Android. They are almost the only category that is making any money, in fact.
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Originally posted by kaprikawn View PostI wonder whether it's worth it adding tessellation to Android. I remember when they were announcing DX10/D3D 10, it was being sold as a method of creating geometry almost for free, or at least with using a disproportionally small amount of resources compared to rendering using polygons and other <= DX9 methods.
But as far as I can tell that sales pitch has not been realised. Look at the clusterfunk that was the DX10 patch for Crysis 2, performance took a HUGE hit in implementing tessellation. And while I appreciate that may have been an extreme case, I can't see other implementations being good. I'm pretty sure Arkham Knight uses tessellation quite a lot, another mess on PC.
I'd like to know how phones, which are roughly between Xbox and 360 power right now for flagship handsets, are expected to take advantage of a feature that, so far, is bringing modern GFX cards to their knees. Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe they're just laying the groundwork for the future, we all know how long it takes for ES versions to be utilised, most things are still using ES 2 as far as I know.
With regards to Vulkan, my big wish is for an open-source radeon driver asap, would be cool to see. Hopefully we'll start to see uptake in Vulkan useage at a far accelerated rate to OpenGL / DirectX etc. It seems like an investment in the future to use Vulkan.
The hardware tessellation support is basically a fixed function feature that accelerates displacement of geometry. They added it to the spec partly because the hardware supports it. And Android has supported it for a year or so now. Crysis 2 was a poor implementation. They had not optimized the levels properly. Period.
Tessellation does not have to be used on everything. The developer should limit its use, and the good ones will. If its done right, it shouldn't hit performance, and the game can be improved.
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