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NVIDIA Alerts Nouveau: They're Starting To Sign/Validate GPU Firmware Images

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  • #41
    Originally posted by vivo View Post
    Just before reading this article, I was thinking about replacing my 770 with a 970.
    I guess I will have to wait and see. If I don't like what I see, AMD here I come.
    What they are proposing to do is almost identical to what AMD is already doing: separate the firmware blob out of the driver and hosting it elsewhere. If the hardware is present, the driver supports the hardware and the firmware is available in /lib/firmware it will be loaded.

    Jumping to AMD does not change anything at all.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by birdie View Post
      You really need to go see a shrink. NVIDIA doesn't owe you anything. You don't like their GPUs? Don't use them.
      And I do not owe good opinion to this bunch of bastards. So I'm perfectly free to have negative opinion about these morons and also free to voice it. As simple as that. Not to mention that attempts to dictate to buyers how to use their hardware is treachery since nobody warns you there're some DRM-styler restrictions in place when you buy that crap. IMO you can't consider yourself an owner if you can't use device in ways you want to. So this is actually something like cheating their customers. You get something like limited/conditional lease at price which equals to price of ownership. Does not sounds like a good deal, huh?

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      • #43


        Good conspiracy theory is - people can't stop talking about it

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        • #44
          Originally posted by birdie View Post
          You really need to go see a shrink. NVIDIA doesn't owe you anything. You don't like their GPUs? Don't use them.

          NVIDIA has thousands of mouths to feed. You are only concerned about "freedom". Freedom from what? From rational thinking? Again, NVIDIA is not a charity - it's a company whose sole goal is to make money and survive.

          If you can create an open source GPU which can successfully compete with NVIDIA solutions - go do that. Alas, GPUs are the most complex computational devices nowadays - according to NVIDIA's own estimates over three thousand talented engineers and scientists worked for three years to create Maxwell.

          Three thousand people where each one of them is ten times smarter than you.
          The source availability of their graphics drivers has little to do with their long term viability as a hardware company.

          It would mean they could not artificially cripple their hardware or arbitrate what features you are allowed to use, but anyone not using Nvidia hardware now (me, for example) would hopefully make up some of the difference if they did a heel face turn.

          But whether or not their drivers, ISAs, firmware, and designs were open or not would have nothing to do with whether or not they could sell their graphics cards. People care about the performance and most are ignorant to how black boxed every Nvidia device is. So the markets speak in that regard, but those of us who care about our hardware being ours and not some companies to control avoid them like the plague.

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          • #45
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization

            Linus Torvalds, the original author of the Linux kernel, has said that he personally doesn't like DRM, but on the other hand, argued that it is appropriate for TiVo to decide if they will use digital signatures to limit what software may run on the systems that they sell. Torvalds has stated that he believes the use of private digital signatures on software is a beneficial security tool. Torvalds also believes that software licenses should attempt to control only software, not the hardware on which it runs. So, as long as one has access to the software, and can modify it to run on some other hardware, Torvalds believes there is nothing unethical about using digital signatures to prevent running modified copies of Linux.
            [Stallman] calls it "tivoization", but that's a word he has made up, and a term I find offensive, so I don't choose to use it. It's offensive because Tivo never did anything wrong, and the FSF even acknowledged that. The fact that they do their hardware and have some DRM issues with the content producers and thus want to protect the integrity of that hardware.

            The kernel license covers the *kernel*. It does not cover boot loaders and hardware, and as far as I'm concerned, people who make their own hardware can design them any which way they want. Whether that means "booting only a specific kernel" or "sharks with lasers", I don't care.
            Open source driver NAZIs continue to be clueless as hell. Even Linus Torvalds who is a retard that likes to show the middle finger for no good reason is still more reasonable than the open source driver NAZIs here.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by birdie View Post
              What about buggy as hell Wi-Fi USB drivers? What about buggy as hell GBit NIC drivers?
              Did you think about Realtek-like company that didn't release any documentation (excepts sometimes on NDA) ?
              AFAIK, WiFi and USB stack is common for all device in Linux, so if a device doesn't work that should not be the stack fault, but a specific vendor hardware issue, probably due to lack of documentation for them (register not correctly set ? etc.).

              Originally posted by birdie View Post
              Have you actually read nouveau's mailing list where egregious regressions come up in dozens every month?
              No, because I don't care of Nvidia hardware, because I don't buy their hardware, because I don't like their software policy.

              Originally posted by birdie View Post
              God, open source fanatics seem to believe that open source developers somehow have better brains which allow them to write flawless code right from the start and never make mistakes.
              If NVIDIA only cares about other-party code flaws that could brick their GPU, hum... nouveau is open-source, feel free to them to contribute on the sensible code.
              nouveau developers could brick your GPU because they are only REVERSE engineering the fan mangement, etc. Of course that would be safer if NVIDIA document that or contribute directly

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              • #47
                NVIDIA requiring signed firmware images is being done to better protect the hardware from being misprogrammed for security reasons. With this initial security implementation, the restrictions are relatively mundane like protecting fuses and ROM from being written by incorrect or malicious software.
                So this deals mostly with possibility of damaging the card.


                (excuse me for the image size)

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                • #48
                  This isn't about bugs in Nouveau, it's about preventing the latest Internet Explorer vulnerability or whatever from allowing an attacker to burn up your GPU.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by birdie View Post
                    ORLY?

                    What about hundreds of poorly supported devices in Linux? What about buggy as hell Wi-Fi USB drivers? What about buggy as hell GBit NIC drivers (aside from Intel's)? Do me a favour and run the "regression site:lkml.org" query on google.com. Be astonished.

                    Do you really think nouveau developers give a flying f*ck if your GPU burns in flames if they make a mistake? Have you actually read nouveau's mailing list where egregious regressions come up in dozens every month? God, open source fanatics seem to believe that open source developers somehow have better brains which allow them to write flawless code right from the start and never make mistakes.

                    You seriously need to take off your rose glasses.
                    I kind of agree with you. No offense to the nouveau or radeon developers, but if I'm dropping $300 - $400 for a GPU I would like to have the drivers made by the company who has the in-house engineering competence to understand the hardware and such. These things are expensive and I want drivers from the people who know the product inside and out.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by GT220 View Post
                      Open source driver NAZIs continue to be clueless as hell.
                      When proprietary nuts are using fascist methods to restrict other people freedoms, they consider it is okay and somehow thinking doing business excuses this crap. Then they're unhappy when they're welcomed with their own methods and figure out many people would be happy to see better alternatives. You see, if you're restricting others, chopping "extra", "unneeded" monitors in new driver and so on, it's not like if you could expect warm welcome. So yeah, it would be fair if YOU will face fate you prepared for others, don't you think so, bunch of wretched proprietary bastards?

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