Bickering Continues About NVIDIA Using DMA-BUF

[Sonadow]

But I can tell you that apart from the BIOS my favorite laptop is 100% open source software, since it is a centrino platform everything operates 100% out of the box.



The death of linux as a bastion for freedom has begun.

Rubbish. The Intel wifi card in your precious notebook relies on proprietary firmware blobs in the kernel to function. Blobs which Intel has allowed the Linux kernel to redistribute with no cost on the condition that they may not be mocified.

Fully free my foot. Go compile a libre kernel fork or install Ututo / gNewSense / blag and see just how much of the hardware will fail to function. I have personally tested a libre kernel before and the Intel wifi cards will not function at all since all references to the firmware are removed at the source level.


And Linus never ever intended for Linux to be 'free software'; it's only 'free' because he liked GPL v2. The LMKL is very clear on his stand about 'free software'.

[Rigaldo]

Had I the choice of having a free BIOS, I would have a open source BIOS instead... but you see, I was not given that choice for all the motherboards I can think of.. actually I don't even think I saw ANY motherboard with a open bios.


So it's not a matter of choice when it comes to the BIOS.

But I can tell you that apart from the BIOS my favorite laptop is 100% open source software, since it is a centrino platform everything operates 100% out of the box.

I give you this example, if the linux community got behind the new samsung chromebook and acquire it en masse.. and then demanded samsung to make it fully open source (some stuff already is), it would prove to be a great victory for linux.


I now see that steam and nvidia and canonical have the power to kill what linux stands for.

In one swift move canonical can release ubuntu 13.04 with a bunch of 'secret features' and valve will make steam ubuntu only. Then people will flock to ubuntu to play steam games and of course download the best drivers in order to be able to play their games 100% (those would be nvidia's blob as amd sucks).

And there you go, from a fully open source system now you have a system with 'secret features' dialing home to amazon and God knows who else, with corporate drivers playing corporate software.


The death of linux as a bastion for freedom has begun.

I don't recall Linux even being "a bastion for freedom" or anything. That was (is) GNU. We should not get things confused.
Secret features on Ubuntu 13.04 were not going to be shown before launch, nothing about closed source I can remember. Steam will start specifically for Ubuntu 12.04 for testing, and then will probably move to the other distributions( Source : Valve ).
Maybe we should give up games entirely, since they might perform better with the by the blobs ...
And depending on what you mean be corrupted, Linux is probably long "corrupted" ....

Btw .. People will "flock to Ubuntu". From where? Windows and OS X? Wouldn't that be better? They will have a system with many more free parts and the opportunity to discover other "more free" systems.
If they already use another Linux distro and even more have a "free" system, there's not much reason they will ..


As for the sacrifices mentioned before, let's all installed opensource coreboot instead of closed source BIOS. At worse you'll brick your pc or have not internet. But it's a necessary sacrifice .... Waiting for you to start..!

[RussianNeuroMancer]

there are systems that are patchable with coreboot. the asrock version of zacate board e350 one as example.

Ethernet still broken: http://tracker.coreboot.org/trac/coreboot/ticket/180

[blackiwid]

Had I the choice of having a free BIOS, I would have a open source BIOS instead...

there are systems that are patchable with coreboot. the asrock version of zacate board e350 one as example. Then you think that the today linuxkernel or ubuntu or stuff is free software purely thats not true.

http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

you see not only ubuntu is not in there but also not debian or fedora. for me thats the distributions thats fit my freedomness-feeling, so to make small compromisses but at least have a clear goal to go the right way. So that I mean in this world if you go completly consequent you end in a hole in the earth and have no pc or other stuff and eat like some nuts and berries from the forest or something. you have to make compromisses but I think its more important to make way less compromisses like most others do, who dont care about freedom and other stuff at all... when they come closer to your views you can go a step further maybe because it gets easier and the gap becomes smaller.

[Pallidus]

Had I the choice of having a free BIOS, I would have a open source BIOS instead... but you see, I was not given that choice for all the motherboards I can think of.. actually I don't even think I saw ANY motherboard with a open bios.


So it's not a matter of choice when it comes to the BIOS.

But I can tell you that apart from the BIOS my favorite laptop is 100% open source software, since it is a centrino platform everything operates 100% out of the box.

I give you this example, if the linux community got behind the new samsung chromebook and acquire it en masse.. and then demanded samsung to make it fully open source (some stuff already is), it would prove to be a great victory for linux.


I now see that steam and nvidia and canonical have the power to kill what linux stands for.

In one swift move canonical can release ubuntu 13.04 with a bunch of 'secret features' and valve will make steam ubuntu only. Then people will flock to ubuntu to play steam games and of course download the best drivers in order to be able to play their games 100% (those would be nvidia's blob as amd sucks).

And there you go, from a fully open source system now you have a system with 'secret features' dialing home to amazon and God knows who else, with corporate drivers playing corporate software.


The death of linux as a bastion for freedom has begun.

[blackiwid]

If your point is turning linux into another windows or os X why not go to those systems instead??

if you take that to the max debian is a evil distribution... just saying... and even if you take a really free distribution, as long as you use a proprietary bios you go to hell, too ^^

I agree that in long term we have to fix such stuff, too. and we have to get stricter if it goes easier... the alternative is to not use cell-phones even with android or other linux-based oses.

I think its a point of attitude, do I at least want a free system, and do at least slowly remove the last dependencies or replace it with own programms or something like that.

And there I see the problem that ubuntu goes the wrong way, because of that even I hate rpm (please dont talk about it here again ^^) I try to switch to fedora, or maybe I go back to gentoo or something... dont run for it but I at least moved and tried it on my notebook and played around with it a bit... but I dont yet bitch about steam.

I will not install it here, but on the other hand I have windows pc here (which I start only to play ^^ so like a gaming console) so ok I seperated it cleanly (and save power because I use mostly my 20w linux pc ^^). So in a very bad world you have to make compromises or its at least a real pain in the ass if you dont. On the other hand if the game developers dont get better games out soon, I think I dont need a windows-gaming pc anymore ^^ because it kind of sucks.

I just say I dont will use it, I dont recommend it to people to use steam on linux, I just say, if some people use linux and gaming was what they did stop them, to try it, and understand maybe also the ideas behind... it could be ok.... maybe I will install someday on a seperate linux only for gaming on my gaming-pc a linux instead of the windows. So here at least some evilness would be gone, too.

And even Richard Stallman is a bit swinging around if he thinks if its good or not, so he does not categorical think its a bad thing purely.

[yogi_berra]

Steam is AIDS and I won't be touching it.


owner of phoronix READ THIS:


what phoronix needs is one of those little pinguin / win7/ OS x icons like the fedora forums or ubuntu etc...


that way you know what system people are running when you reply to them.

that way you avoid wasting time replying to people like sonadow that are clearly 1.homosexual 2. running windows.

Shouldn't you be lurking in /r/gayporn?

[johnc]

Corrupted by reality you mean?

Linux relevance has always depended on proprietary software, and in most cases, proprietary drivers as well.

[Pallidus]

What I see here is many people with the agenda of corrupting the very nature of linux.


To me steam has no place in the linux ecosystem, it is the antithesis of everything linux stands for.

Nvidia being able to 'infect' the kernel seems like another attack.

Canonical now developing stuff in 'secret' because of the flack they received from the amazon deal.


What I don't understand is why the owner of phoronix, phoronix members etc stand by corporations like valve and nvidia and want to see linux corrupted.

If your point is turning linux into another windows or os X why not go to those systems instead??

[blackiwid]

Not really they just aren't our friends, they can be worked around and ignored. Our enemies are those who would lock down API's for themselves and wield patents to monopolize markets.

hmm yes they are maybe not enemies of freedom in full idiological sense, they are not standing there in their private live and say I hate linux I hate linux, I will destroy it (or replace linux with foss), but they do not value freedom and they do not care about it especialy the freedom of other persons, and they do in their live like steve jobs did stuff that enslaves people. So is ignorence an excuse? maybe but then there is practical NO enemy of "Linux" or FOSS. The enemys are the people who do bad things that hurts opensource and people in their freedom, the reason behind that if its "rational" money-greediness or if its poor hate doesnt matter much.

To the Steam vs Nvidia discussion.

The difference is that its more basic thing. as a nvidia User and there is not exaclty a very big choice of availible grafic card vendors, and even a bit as amd user, you nearly are forced to use the non-free drivers (less true for amd but strongly true about nvidia), but nobody is enforced to use steam not even remotly. And then its enother thing, if you would use steam, yes you are butchering partialy your freedom, but you dont bring the hole system in danger, so 1. I hope it will not modify the kernel, it will not even run as a root process. so it byself must hack your system to even get more privileges than your user. so you could at least limit its antifeature-possiblities. But thats not the most important stuff. like I said it will not patch xserver or kernel, so at least you can report bugs to that software instead of kernels with nvidia modules that are then not allowed naturaly for bug reports, because they cant fix stuff thats related to stuff where they dont have the soruce code.

And no I will not use it either. But its also a difference if a company sells software and therefor at least risk to not get the same amount of money if they release the sourcecode (but if you lisense artwork as nonfree content, you would also get your money but ok) and its only games you sell, that nobody really needs. or if you sell hardware, and give your customers not the controll over it, whats nearly a fraud. Laws should allow people to sue companys for such stuff. And thats then still less than rms wants and in the long run me too, that closedsource should be illigal. But again to sell hardware and bring it only to operation with blackbox-trojan-drivers should definitly be illigal soon.