Phoronix: Bickering Continues About NVIDIA Using DMA-BUF
The fight continues about not changing the Linux kernel symbols for DMA-BUF so that NVIDIA can support NVIDIA Optimus Technology within their proprietary graphics driver...
http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTIwOTI
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Bickering Continues About NVIDIA Using DMA-BUF
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Bickering Continues About NVIDIA Using DMA-BUF
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Originally posted by gamerk2 View PostWell, the first problem was obviously Vista. The second was using a GPU that is barely supported (fallback DX9E path). The third was using Windows update for a GPU driver.
These days, at least with NVIDIA, driver installs are painless, not even requiring a reboot anymore.
2. back then (2011) it was supported fully AFAIK
3. Yes one should not use Windows Update for updating drivers because MS doesn't do even basic QA
For me WU is source of many unpleasant memories setting faulty icc profiles and so on
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Originally posted by Ramiliez View PostI used Windows Update to upgrade my 7800GT drivers and after reboot windows just crashed before login screen and i wasn't the only one with same problem
FYI: it was Vista x64
These days, at least with NVIDIA, driver installs are painless, not even requiring a reboot anymore.
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Originally posted by johnc View PostSo in Windows if I install a video driver the system becomes unbootable?
When did that start?
FYI: it was Vista x64
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Originally posted by johnc View PostI haven't criticized the upgrade path.
In the one example I gave I was referring to a fresh install of 12.10.
Nvidia basicly says... we want to make our driver closed source... and if we had to replace anything but the linux kernel by our verisons we would do so...
I think at some point they would even risk to loose some customers and only support a bsd unix instead of linux so they can continue closed source only...
but to get a compromise...
just lets say Canonical sucks AND Nvidia sucks... and linux + gnu + other opensource/free software rocks or GNU/Linux rocks... so I give you that, that ubuntu kind of sucks... but I have other reasons to say that... I say that because they switched away from the gnome-main-gui and made their own... and other decitions only made to make money instead of pushing free software/opensource...
Sadly I dont see good alternatives... maybe fedora... but this late fedora 18 if it comes... will deliver than a very old verison of gnome-shell I guess not the 3.8 but the 3.6 version... and the "unstable" version whats it called rawhide is not always usable... and I dont think that arch linux is good enough I run into many problems with the user-created packages... and I dont like the installer tools gentoos emerge was maybe slower but better tools...
I dont like mint either because they also crippeld gnoem-shell I want a very vanilla experince... so its a bit hard now... but ok thats another topic which distro is good now ^^ fedora could be a good replacement for ubuntu if they would become again able to release timebased releases ^^
debian sucks for some new stuff even unstable or experimental has not full gnome-shell 3.6 packages ^^Last edited by blackiwid; 12-31-2012, 11:01 PM.
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Originally posted by blackiwid View Postso you really think that ubuntu has bad upgrade problems? so you would be more happy if ubuntu just would say... upgrades are not allowed so you run into 0 problems... because fresh installs at least from lts should normaly work...
In the one example I gave I was referring to a fresh install of 12.10.
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Originally posted by blackiwid View PostThats the problems you "noobs" all compare linux to a pervect virtual os... and flame then because its not perfect... instead of compare it to windows...
But I'm not even complaining much about bugs per se. I write software, so I know the realities and I've never been immune to bugs myself. My primary criticism was about major regressions. (I.e., it worked here, they made a change, didn't test it, pushed it out in a release, and boom...) But even here, the point I was making was to refute your argument that NVIDIA is to blame for the woes of the noobs. In my experience it's not the driver that's the problem (though it is certainly not bug-free), but rather all the other stuff in the distro that causes the big headaches. So I don't understand why you were saying that NVIDIA is turning off new users to Linux.
"They have to slow down and not release a single change until it has been thoroughly tested. That's just how professional software works." yes that sounds like you want to use debian... so its your fault for picking a somewhat bleeding edge distri... ok there are more bleeding edge distries out there... but ubuntu is still very bleeding edge... but if you lets say wait one year after the release of a ubuntu lts it should be pretty stable...
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand then the person goes into Jockey and selects "NVIDIA driver" and then reboots to a black screen. Who wouldn't consider this a major hurdle to adoption? It's not about me or NVIDIA. I run into a lot of these types of postings on forums.
And then there is another problem, you compare a basic vanilla os like windows with basicly the hole opensource world... you would not blame microsoft if photoshop would have a bug, but basicly you did just blame Linux or Ubuntu for bugs in additional software... just because they make it easy installable for you...
Nor am I particularly blaming any piece of OSS software... I'm just saying that it's no less susceptible to bugs as, say, a proprietary driver. And even here, I only criticized distro decisions rather than actual software projects.
And all of this is from the context of what would cause frustration in a noob, not necessarily my personal complaints, though I think my experiences serve as legitimate points.
I hate to call out Canonical so much in this thread because IMO they put out the best distro. It's just some of the things I see make me face-palm and then SMH.
And, to be fair, I publicly shook my fist at NVIDIA when a driver update broke my suspend-to-ram. But that's the only problem the driver has ever given me.
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tried to edit but to slow... I just googled about update paths... for windows users I did not find it for windows 8 but for windows 7:
http://blog.this.at/post/2009/08/07/...Windows-7.aspx
it says basicly that in most cases you have to reinstall windows you are not able to upgrade it...
so you really think that ubuntu has bad upgrade problems? so you would be more happy if ubuntu just would say... upgrades are not allowed so you run into 0 problems... because fresh installs at least from lts should normaly work...
and if you install a normal windows on a pc like on mine I have also no working network... thats also a big problem... the only reason less people maybe whine about install problems of windows is because they buy it preinstalled... or they get a cd with drivers from it... and basicly the company that sells the hardware look after it that the user run not into big problems... its a bit hard to blame ubuntu because the hardware-selling companies dont give the same support for linux/ubuntu...
so yes the binary drivers are not the only problem on the "blaming the wrong people" problem... but they are one of it... but on the other side... the amount of "noobs" using linux is not that important... except maybe for companies that try to earn money with proprietary software for linux...
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Originally posted by johnc View Post
And, with all of the frustrations I experience with Linux (which fortunately aren't too often), it's hardly ever NVIDIA that I'm shaking my fist at.
Dare I say, the big problem with "Linux" (from a noob perspective) is that these distributions are all beta (or even alpha) releases. There is NO quality assurance being applied, and that's just blunt and to the point. Look at how many times there are versions released with show-stopping bugs and regressions that would have been picked up had a formal regression testing phase been followed. Even an LTS like 12.04 shipped with major cluster-f's. They have to slow down and not release a single change until it has been thoroughly tested. That's just how professional software works.
And to the update thing, yes its basicly in beta-state... but windows is in pre-alpha when it releases, and I never heard of that somebody sucessfuly made a real update no sp, from windows x to windows x+1 was it not even that they dont allow it at all for some versions vista ->7? or something and if they "support" it it just installs both oses basicly over its other... like copy 1000 new files to the old 700...
So your lightdm problem with update is basicly a luxus-problem because in windows you would just not be able... and even if that in some rare cases works perfectly... they do manage such updates all what 3-5 years? its a bit easier than do it all 6 months... and they just dont fix security holes because they dont want to risk something does go wrong... I think thats a big price for having a somewhat stable experince... then there are the installs... install windows over usb-stick is less easy than a linux...
Thats the problems you "noobs" all compare linux to a pervect virtual os... and flame then because its not perfect... instead of compare it to windows...
"They have to slow down and not release a single change until it has been thoroughly tested. That's just how professional software works." yes that sounds like you want to use debian... so its your fault for picking a somewhat bleeding edge distri... ok there are more bleeding edge distries out there... but ubuntu is still very bleeding edge... but if you lets say wait one year after the release of a ubuntu lts it should be pretty stable... like a windows is also first somewhat bugfree after sp1 (aka rc1) state...
I mean windows xp was after some years pretty good.... but then they released vista... total crap... totaly buggy, against this most bugs in ubuntu are very harmless... at least a lts version... they took even money for this alpha version... then they released windows 7 and now its somewhat usable... now whats next windows 8 gets very very bad feedback... basicly most people even hate it more than vista... they had in vista btw big regressions the boottimes did get after what 7 years of development time (at least they had that long time if they wanted to) it boot did take way longer than the old windows xp.
And then there is another problem, you compare a basic vanilla os like windows with basicly the hole opensource world... you would not blame microsoft if photoshop would have a bug, but basicly you did just blame Linux or Ubuntu for bugs in additional software... just because they make it easy installable for you...Last edited by blackiwid; 12-31-2012, 09:51 PM.
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Originally posted by Ramiliez View PostUmm don't you know the ancient saying that MS Windows becomes usable after releasing first service pack? OS X has same birthing difficulties...
When did that start?
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