Originally posted by V!NCENT
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Actually, no. The problem is that we don't want information in public that could impact our ability to ship a robust DRM implementation on other OSes. It doesn't make a whit of difference whether that information is published or reverse engineered. If you want a bad analogy (hey, I'm out of coffee) it's like being shot in the foot. It's a Bad Thing whether you do it or someone else does it, but you still don't want to do it yourselfTest signature
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Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View PostSo, reverse-engineering Nvidia's decoding hardware would be a better thing?
Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View PostCause then, you could release the documentation anyway, as all the competitors' decoding is already out in the open.
The MPAA (or whoever makes those contracts) isn't going to say "Oh well, copy protection was a bad idea anyway. You may now freely copy our movies on all platforms. Have fun!"
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Originally posted by rohcQaH View Postdoesn't matter if the copy protection is broken. It already is (blueray movies CAN be ripped and copied), but that doesn't lift the contractual obligations of the GPU vendors.
The MPAA (or whoever makes those contracts) isn't going to say "Oh well, copy protection was a bad idea anyway. You may now freely copy our movies on all platforms. Have fun!"
In short, they might screw either ATi or Nvidia, but not both. They would be shooting themselves in the foot.
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Actually, I'm just asking if stereo support is accounted for, so that supporting it won't cause major disruption if/when the devs can get around to it. Stereo support is _part_ of OpenGL (google: OpenGL Quad Buffer stereo) anyway. I'm not suggesting that they drop any current activities or anything of the sort... It's just a question / concern. That's all.
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Originally posted by bridgman View Postwe don't want information in public that could impact our ability to ship a robust DRM implementation on other OSes.
If completely reversed, I know that you'd secretly be cheering. Everyone would.
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Originally posted by droidhacker View PostBah! Don't give me that.... I can tell by the things that you say that you have an unscratchable itch to give out all the restricted super-secret DRM stuff that you can possibly get your hands on -- free to the world, however, I know that you're not going to because we both know that you are far more useful out of jail than letting the DRM out and spending decades in lockup.
If completely reversed, I know that you'd secretly be cheering. Everyone would.
When jail time is an option, you'd think he'd have different issues to contemplate than his "usefulness" to whatever cause.
Also remember that overseeing the OSS-drivers is only half of bridgman's job. He's also responsible for some unspecified things related to that DRM stuff he likes to talk about so often (what a coincidence ).
So, should someone break their DRM, guess who'll have to pick up the pieces? I wouldn't assume he'd be too happy about that.
last but not least, RE'ing their DRM would change a lot. Ok, you can watch your videos GPU accelerated for a while. But even if bridgman manages to release both AMD's and NVIDIAs DRM, it'll cost both companies money, and guess where budget cuts hit first? Maybe some OSS effort which doesn't have a measurable ROI anyway? And one way or another, the MPAA is going to react, and that rarely turns out well for their customers.
The root cause we'd all like to see destroyed is a totally different one. DRM is just a symptom.
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If the _AMD_ implementation of the DRM was cracked then pirates would only laugh and jawn (ripped versions are on the web anyway) and a legeon of angry FLOSS supporters would go after the cracker with burning torches for making AMD stop giving out documentation and working drivers, me included.
I'm serious.
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Originally posted by rohcQaH View Postuhm, what?
When jail time is an option, you'd think he'd have different issues to contemplate than his "usefulness" to whatever cause.
And as I said, obviously in his case, the risk exceeds the benefits -- both to him personally, as well as to society in general.
Also remember that overseeing the OSS-drivers is only half of bridgman's job. He's also responsible for some unspecified things related to that DRM stuff he likes to talk about so often (what a coincidence ).
So, should someone break their DRM, guess who'll have to pick up the pieces? I wouldn't assume he'd be too happy about that.
last but not least, RE'ing their DRM would change a lot. Ok, you can watch your videos GPU accelerated for a while.
But even if bridgman manages to release both AMD's and NVIDIAs DRM, it'll cost both companies money,
and guess where budget cuts hit first? Maybe some OSS effort which doesn't have a measurable ROI anyway?
And one way or another, the MPAA is going to react, and that rarely turns out well for their customers.
The root cause we'd all like to see destroyed is a totally different one. DRM is just a symptom.
It would work itself out like this;
1) First stage is vendor A decides they don't want to intentionally limit their customers any more, so they drop HDCP.
2) MPAA learns of this, so blacklists vendor A's keyset.
3) In the face of no longer being able to provide DRM content to their customers any more, vendor A hires Hack-RM to develop a way around the DRM so that their products continue to provide the content.
4) Vendor B sees this and decides to follow vendor A and switches to Hack-RM.
5) MPAA tries to figure out ways to deal with this hack and implements DRMv2 and enables vendors C through F with it.
6) A new company arrives... MPBB. They have a great new scheme for DRM, so they sell it to some of the content providers saying that MPAA's DRMv1 got broken, how can you trust their DRMv2.... so now we have a competing DRM standard.
7) Some of the content providers switch to MPBB's DRM and start shipping stuff with it.
8) Hack-RM starts working on MPBB's new DRM and MPAA's DRMv2.
9) For technical reasons, vendor D and F can't upgrade any of their equipment to MPBB or DRMv2, so if any of their customers want to see any of that, they'll need new equipment.
10) Hack-RM has gotten around MPBB.
11) D decides to software-upgrade their old customers to Hack-RM for both MPBB and DRMv2. New hardware gets official DRMv2, Hack-RM for MPBB.
12) F decides to forget about their old customers altogether, and go official for both DRMv2 and MPBB.
13) Content providers are selling content in DRMv1, DRMv2, and MPBB.
What hardware will deal with what?
14) Customers get wind of the entire situation and realize that D's OLD hardware can decode EVERYTHING.
15) Some hardware cloner in China starts cloning D's OLD hardware and it starts spreading.
16) At some point as this spirals out of control, the customers are getting thoroughly confused about what device does what. New forms of DRM are showing up every day, nothing will play content in ALL of the forms. People end up buying content for a while and quickly realize that its a crapshoot whether it will play or not -- virtually ALL begin resorting to downloading the content decrypted from the internet and quit purchasing content. At least from the internet, they know that it'll play for them.
17) facing a huge drop in sales, the content providers realize that it is because of the confusing situation with regards to DRM. They say f-it and begin selling their content DRM-free, because at least SOME of the consumers will buy it, with the confidence that it will actually WORK.
And, of course, somewhere in the mix, MPAA tries to form a cartel among content providers. Some of them join, some of still don't like MPAA. It doesn't last long because they're all trying to undermine each other's bottom line.
And that is how DRM would die without government regulation.
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