Originally posted by Volta
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RadeonSI OpenGL CTS Tests Running ~30% Faster With Mesa 24.1
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About Zink, this discussion is not necessary. It all boils down to the limited manpower/resources available for development. It makes sense for new architectures to use it as a backend. However, if there are native paths already available or if there is enough manpower/resources then there is no reason not to use the native implementation.
This is open source we are talking about, the notion of reducing things to one solution should be abhorrent by principle. The more alternative implementations available to compete the better. Any solution pretending to be a silver bullet that completely replaces everything else doing the same thing should be avoided, it is a clear red flag.Last edited by SofS; 16 March 2024, 06:36 PM.
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Originally posted by user1 View Post
I know, but that still doesn't change the fact that RadeonSi is the fastest, most optimized and mature OpenGL driver currently available. With ACO support for RadeonSi finished in Mesa 24.0, it should now be even faster. I've already noticed slight gain in 2 games with ACO.
Unless you don't own an AMD GPU, I personally find it really weird not wanting to get the most out of your GPU. In other cases like Nouveau or Asahi when there is no mature and performant OpenGL driver? Sure, Zink makes much more sense.
When Zink is the only GL driver left, it will get full attention and potential optimization and be way good enough to handle the aging gl applications and games.
Even if RadeonSi can squish at few percents over Radv + Zink, I prefer leaving gl to Zink still, because that means vulkan drivers (that are the future) get more attention from mesa devs.
Here is my take.
PS: I have nvidia, so yes, in my case that'll be nvk (if good enough) + zink.
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Originally posted by aufkrawall View PostI would have thought Zink to be much more compatible and performant at this point, disappointing imho. It just works poorly compared to where DXVK got much earlier in its development. Which is a pity, as I suppose lots of users would like to get rid of the most regressing component in their system after the Linux kernel, which probably is RadeonSI...
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Originally posted by aufkrawall View PostWhich is a pity, as I suppose lots of users would like to get rid of the most regressing component in their system after the Linux kernel, which probably is RadeonSI...
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Originally posted by rmfx View PostIt prefer by far 10 vulkan drivers and only zink in mesa, rather than 10 vulkan drivers + 10 opengl drivers to maintain.
When Zink is the only GL driver left, it will get full attention and potential optimization and be way good enough to handle the aging gl applications and games.
Even if RadeonSi can squish at few percents over Radv + Zink, I prefer leaving gl to Zink still, because that means vulkan drivers (that are the future) get more attention from mesa devs.
Here is my take.
This is a big problem with the Linux community, because they have an ideology that they want everyone else to enforce, and what always happens is that nobody does. So of course things either don't work, or they work slowly. The people who don't use Linux will point and laugh because we can't run a game from 2005 that runs on OpenGL. We're at 4% market share, so lets not try to mess this up now.
PS: I have nvidia, so yes, in my case that'll be nvk (if good enough) + zink.
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Originally posted by Dukenukemx View PostAs much as you want to move to the future, the OpenGL API has been around for decades and you think it's super easy to just dump it over Vulkan? As great as it sounds to make the few developers jobs easier who work on mesa, but you're asking for all the other developers to implement Vulkan when OpenGL was working fine and really doesn't need the capabilities of Vulkan? The math doesn't check out.
This is a big problem with the Linux community, because they have an ideology that they want everyone else to enforce, and what always happens is that nobody does. So of course things either don't work, or they work slowly. The people who don't use Linux will point and laugh because we can't run a game from 2005 that runs on OpenGL. We're at 4% market share, so lets not try to mess this up now.
Are you using Nouveau or Nvidia's drivers? You better be practicing what you're preaching.
I use the blob drivers for now. Are you serious? mesa just started becoming “maybe decent” regarding nvidia. Nothing is done yet. However, I use radv and zink on my old laptop. And I am happy with it.
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Originally posted by rmfx View Post
I never said drop opengl... I said opengl support should be left to zink from now on, to allocate ressources in a much smarter and less redundant way.
I use the blob drivers for now. Are you serious? mesa just started becoming “maybe decent” regarding nvidia. Nothing is done yet. However, I use radv and zink on my old laptop. And I am happy with it.
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Originally posted by Dukenukemx View PostTranslation layers are always worse than native.
ZINK > Vulkan
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"Native" > Gallium have the same level of abstraction.
Acutally there are many cases where ZINK is already faster now ... and where it ends up not being faster is where there is a lack of optimisations that lead it to choking at higher FPS on say the 7900XTX, while in the same benchmarks it is faster than "native" on slower GPUs.Last edited by cb88; 21 March 2024, 10:08 AM.
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