AMD Reveals More Details Around The Radeon RX 7900 Series / RDNA3

[WannaBeOCer]

I stand corrected, you're right. The AMD Cards are PCIe4.0, so same as nvidia.

Nontheless those HPWR Connectors are problematic, I don't want to see those used in my PC. There are already enough examples of them melted down.



ATX12VO was standardized in 2019, so 3 years ago. Adoption is still scarce, next to noone needs its, so no components get produced. Also see this article:

https://overclock3d.net/news/power_supply/what_journalists_got_wrong_about_intel_s_atx12vo_standard/1

The issue is people using ATX 2.0 power supplies either with PCIe 5 connector adapters or cables. While there haven’t been any issues observed with ATX 3.0 power supplies. Might as well take advantage of the switch to a more efficient platform using ATX12VO.

https://videocardz.com/newz/pci-sig-concerned-about-potential-thermal-variance-with-12vhpwr-pcie-gen5-power-cable-adapters

While PCI-SIG investigates the thermal variance for existing adapters, users are advised to consider ATX 3.0 power supplies with modern PCIe Gen5 12VHPWR connector natively implemented, as no thermal variance is observed here. The organization is to release a report on the issue soon, possibly before NVIDIA launches its new GPUs. Hopefully, this will also be thoroughly investigated by tech reviewers beforehand.

[Danny3]

Huh? What are you talking about? What games need SR-IOV?

If you want that feature, get a workstation card.

The games that don't work with WINE, isn't that obvious?

And there are not only games that don't work with WINE.

Some / many programs developed for Windows too don't work with WINE and for them the only possibility is a VM.

And why the fuck should I buy an expensive GPU if it comes with these stupid artificial limitations?

And WTF should I do with a workstation card?

I don't need that.

[WannaBeOCer]

The games that don't work with WINE, isn't that obvious?

And there are not only games that don't work with WINE.

Some / many programs developed for Windows too don't work with WINE and for them the only possibility is a VM.

And why the fuck should I buy an expensive GPU if it comes with these stupid artificial limitations?

And WTF should I do with a workstation card?

I don't need that.

Just use PCI passthrough, only benefit of SR-IOV is to virtually split a GPU into multiple vGPUs. Better yet just buy a PS5 if you want to game on Linux.

[chithanh]

My Nvidia homies still feel like second-class citizens on Linux and are abandoning Nvidia on their next upgrade.

I am not sure about this statement, do you have any stats to back this up? Based on all the hardware surveys I can find, Nvidia on Linux has held a commanding lead over Radeon for many years.

I know of gamingonlinux.com user statistics, they have NVidia and AMD almost equal.

Caveats are that this is opt-in and self-reported, and it doesn't ask whether the hardware was bought before or after they started using Linux.

NVIDIA is so concerned. I guess 99.5% of their sales go to Windows users. Where can I get Open Source AMD Windows drivers? Nowhere? Exactly.

The vast majority of people in the world couldn't care less about the openness of drivers.

NVidia and AMD consumer Linux drivers were traditionally a byproduct of their workstation drivers. And the workstation users did start to care at some point, which made AMD and NVidia care because despite their small numbers, workstations are responsible for a large share of profits. There are now a number of workstation features in AMD's open source driver.

Also in consumer world there is the Steam Deck where one of the decision factors for shipping it with a Linux-based OS was Valve's ability to directly intervene in the driver situation. After the gaming community was initially skeptic, they are fully embracing Valve's concept now.

ATX12VO is much more efficient than the current implementation. It shocks me how slow the progression is to embrace it. I’m going to be holding out upgrading my rig until ATX12VO is adopted by some higher end motherboard manufacturers. We’re already seeing them in lower end 600 series consumer boards. Won’t be long until they hit a few higher end boards.

The problem is that ATX12VO will cost more on the mobo side, while mainstream PSUs can't drop the non +12V rails just yet. So there will be an economic hurdle to overcome, and I am so far not convinced that ATX12VO will do any better than BTX format.

We’ve already been informed months ago by PCI-SIG about potential issues when using non-ATX 3.0 compliant power supplies when using 12VHPWR. Using ATX 2.0 adapters/cables to 12VHPWR isn’t recommended. All PCIe gen 5.0 GPUs will be required to use 12VHPWR to meet PCI-SIG’s specifications.

Do note that there is already a PCIe 5.0 GPU (MTT S80) and it doesn't use 12VHPWR.

The issue is people using ATX 2.0 power supplies either with PCIe 5 connector adapters or cables. While there haven’t been any issues observed with ATX 3.0 power supplies.

No, IgorsLab did a very good analysis. The issue is not in the PSU, but in the plug and the insertion process. In follow-up report he also mentioned how the ergonomics of current 12VHPWR implementations are bad, such as lacking a keep-out area.

[WannaBeOCer]

I know of gamingonlinux.com user statistics, they have NVidia and AMD almost equal.

Caveats are that this is opt-in and self-reported, and it doesn't ask whether the hardware was bought before or after they started using Linux.

NVidia and AMD consumer Linux drivers were traditionally a byproduct of their workstation drivers. And the workstation users did start to care at some point, which made AMD and NVidia care because despite their small numbers, workstations are responsible for a large share of profits. There are now a number of workstation features in AMD's open source driver.

Also in consumer world there is the Steam Deck where one of the decision factors for shipping it with a Linux-based OS was Valve's ability to directly intervene in the driver situation. After the gaming community was initially skeptic, they are fully embracing Valve's concept now.

The problem is that ATX12VO will cost more on the mobo side, while mainstream PSUs can't drop the non +12V rails just yet. So there will be an economic hurdle to overcome, and I am so far not convinced that ATX12VO will do any better than BTX format.

Do note that there is already a PCIe 5.0 GPU (MTT S80) and it doesn't use 12VHPWR.

No, IgorsLab did a very good analysis. The issue is not in the PSU, but in the plug and the insertion process. In follow-up report he also mentioned how the ergonomics of current 12VHPWR implementations are bad, such as lacking a keep-out area.

Reviews already show how efficient ATX12VO is: https://overclock3d.net/reviews/powe...wer_supplies/1

If anything I’ll end up buying a low end ATX12VO motherboard when I upgrade.

That Chinese company isn’t following PCI-SIG specifications then. Intel’s data center PCIe Gen 5 GPUs are using 12VHPWR.

I didn’t see any mention in Igor’s research that indicates an issue with 12VHPWR when using an ATX 3.0 power supply. Only issues with the adapters. From that link you provided.

Even though it is of course a typical sales catalyst: you should really switch to an ATX 3.0 power supply with a native cable or take the manufacturer of your power supply to task and insist on a 12VHPWR cable, which can also be equipped with the usual Molex connectors (2 x 8, or 2x 12) on the power supply side (depending on the vendor).

[Veto]

Can’t wait until 12VHPWR and AVX12VO become the standard power cables.
Look how simple it is to plugin a single cable with an ATX 3.0 PSU:
https://storage-asset.msi.com/event/...ison_after.jpg

Yes. It is a slightly nicer solution. However, what a great shame they did not go for 48V while they were at it. It would make for a much nicer solution with smaller plugs and thinner cables. Small Point-of-Load DC-DC converters could be used for the legacy voltages in the transition period.

[oleid]

The games that don't work with WINE, isn't that obvious?

And there are not only games that don't work with WINE.

Some / many programs developed for Windows too don't work with WINE and for them the only possibility is a VM.

.

Or a native installation of Windows. But you don't need SR-IOV for that VM.

And why the fuck should I buy an expensive GPU if it comes with these stupid artificial limitations?

And WTF should I do with a workstation card?

I don't need that.

Well, both Nvidia and AMD decided SR-IOV is workstation feature where you have multiple VMs sharing the same GPU.

[Keats]

It wouldn’t be an AMD release without their silly marketing terms. “Plug and Game” works the same on the RTX 40 series. If anything 12VHPWR will be easier to use with new ATX 3.0 power supplies. Can’t wait until 12VHPWR and AVX12VO become the standard power cables.

Look how simple it is to plugin a single cable with an ATX 3.0 PSU:
https://storage-asset.msi.com/event/...ison_after.jpg

It works the same, assuming you're buying a new PSU (and likely a case) to go with your GPU. So not the same at all for many people.

[mdedetrich]

So, will cryptominers snatch all of them due to the higher performance per watt or will these end up in gamer hands at last?

There is a crypto crash right now, i.e. crypto winter. One of the reasons why the pricing/release of the 4xxxx series compared to the 3xxxx series ie because NVidia was expecting to sell a lot more GPU's (including to miners) but that didn't happen and they now have massive oversupply of 3xxxx series.

Ontop of that, ETH moved to proof of stake which means it no longer does GPU mining. So you don't have to worry about this;

[mdedetrich]

It's dead Jim. You will literally wait forever.

Its not actually, its just been delegated to server space, i.e. an area where they actually care much more about power savings. This also really isn't uncommon, where stuff gets released to server/enterprise first and then it trickles down to consumers.

And yeah the power you can save is enormous, mainly when your computer is idling.