AMD's Marek Olšák Lands Even More OpenGL Threading Improvements Into Mesa 20.1

[TemplarGR]

consoles are based on what is available now and not necessarily what is absolutely best for the job. nvidia tends to pull ahead of competition with gpu tech and amd mostly plays catch-up. it might just be that by the time another console gen hits the market, nvidia will be in upswing with some new tech by that time.


he also wrote that rdna2 may not be very competitive feature-wise, i think he's looking at general value of the product, not just the price.

for ML cluster at place where i work at, we bought quite a few of those RTX cards. i assume rtx has some computational advantage over previous models, it was not my call to purchase them.

and linux is not solely about desktops and gaming.

1) No, consoles are based on upcoming tech that will be the best for the job at the time of release. The consoles began getting designed years ago and they were already planned for RDNA2, consoles are not DYI Pc builders taking off the shelf parts.... If Nvidia could compete, they would. Nothing could stop an original Xbox combo, Intel cpu with Nvidia gpu, if it was better technologically. Nvidia is only in the Nintendo Switch, and only because they offered a very, very low price.

2) AMD has always been ahead of Nvidia in technology. Nvidia has been the one mostly playing catch up this decade (up until RTX 2000 they didn't even have async compute, AMD had it since 2012...). RTX is not "new gpu tech", it is just a new driver feature that exploits gpu shaders in a new way. AMD didn't use it because it didn't make sense to demand a 1000$ gpu in order to provide tiny raytraced effects at 1080p30fps. AMD's upcoming way will be much more powerful and effective, that is why a typical 5700xt-level of console hardware will be able to pull off raytracing better than a 2080ti....

3) What Nvidia does have, is a stranglehold on pc game developers to "optimize" (read, make AMD perform worser than Nvidia) for their hardware and on PC tech review sites.....

4) Yes, i am aware that Linux is not solely about desktops and gaming. It seems you are not aware that ML is a very tiny niche though. Yes it gets a lot of press exposure but really, it is not that mainstream. So yeah, it is safe for me to assume in a MESA thread that people are talking about the desktop and gaming. It is also safe to assume that professionals aren't talking about the 3080ti, because that will be a gaming gpu, and true professionals don't use gaming hardware for serious ML work.

[NotMine999]

This thread escalated quickly.

Yup. The arguing parties should take this to another room, preferably in another time dimension.

[schmidtbag]

At some point I expect GL threading to be inversed, where it applies to all games but blacklists those that don't cooperate. For now, the current approach is less failure-prone for the stable branch.

1)Nvidia is only in the Nintendo Switch, and only because they offered a very, very low price.

Nintendo picked Nvidia for the Switch because Maxwell at the time was the only complete mobile SoC capable of handling a desirable modern gaming experience. And being an SoC is very important, as opposed to having 2 discrete chips. The Tegra series is very good at what it intends to be. It's a little too power-hungry to be used in a phone, but AMD didn't offer a fanless SoC solution with the same amount of total compute power. I'm sure Nintendo didn't get a good deal by going with Nvidia.

2) AMD has always been ahead of Nvidia in technology. Nvidia has been the one mostly playing catch up this decade (up until RTX 2000 they didn't even have async compute, AMD had it since 2012...).

That's not true at all. There are only 2 technologies I can think of where AMD got there first: DX11 and the low-level principles behind Mantle. Maybe 3D audio; not totally sure. Almost every technology AMD has is a response to Nvidia (Crossfire, real-time raytracing, streaming processors, ReLive, etc) or was never attempted (PhysX and tensor cores).
Note: I'm not an Nvidia shill. The last generation I bought was Kepler, and I bought used. I dislike Nvidia's proprietary nature, but I give credit where credit is due, and Nvidia most certainly is the more innovative company. AMD is the more consumer-friendly one, and that's why I support them.

3) What Nvidia does have, is a stranglehold on pc game developers to "optimize" (read, make AMD perform worser than Nvidia) for their hardware and on PC tech review sites.....

Yes, this is a problem. But the console architectures aren't that different. Even if a PC port is sloppy, it should still be relatively well-optimized on AMD, even Steamroller CPUs. I still don't understand why this isn't the case.

EDIT:
I realized a mistake in one thing I mentioned.

[boxie]

after i read all comments i understand why linux is less than 1%

You get idiots and trolls everywhere - not just on the Internet. It appears there are a lot of them here trying to get a rise.

[abott]

I saw the opposite for cards that were positioned as comparable (for example 5700 XT and GTX 2070). Blob offers no advantages these days.

GTX 2070: 7.465 TFLOPS
RX 5700: 7.949 TFLOPS

Blob runs better on worse hardware. AMD still punches down, and denying it hurts people who live in reality.

Also, whoever is in an open source forum bitching about sharing code (Which is exactly what everyone here should understand is the purpose of it.) is a new level of stupid. This is a technological/engineering type forum, act like you belong at least for one topic ffs.

[shmerl]

GTX 2070: 7.465 TFLOPS
RX 5700: 7.949 TFLOPS

2070 is compared to 5700 XT. Check your numbers they contradict your own claims.

[duby229]

GTX 2070: 7.465 TFLOPS
RX 5700: 7.949 TFLOPS

Blob runs better on worse hardware. AMD still punches down, and denying it hurts people who live in reality.

Also, whoever is in an open source forum bitching about sharing code (Which is exactly what everyone here should understand is the purpose of it.) is a new level of stupid. This is a technological/engineering type forum, act like you belong at least for one topic ffs.

Reality is nVidia cheats. Period. That's a fact. Do a side by side comparison of visual quality and you'll see the difference, AMD's rendering quality is considerably better. Fact. So just because nVidia cheats in their drivers doesn't make them faster, It just makes them cheaters.

[RBilettess]

How do you reproduce that problem? Could you please open an issue about it here? https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues

There is a bug open at mesa with exact steps for reproduction of the issue:

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/issues/2224

and one at AMD's project mentioning it:

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/943

[abott]

2070 is compared to 5700 XT. Check your numbers they contradict your own claims.

If money is the only thing you care about, sure. But performance to actual performance is the topic being talked about, and AMD loses. I say that as a huge AMD fan, running an RX 580 and R7 1700. 5700 XT is a great value, and great card. But it doesn't beat a 2070 Super, which is more so what it should compete with hardware-wise. AMD's driver is NOT AS GOOD, proven by the numbers. Here's 2 more for ya:

RX 5700 XT: 9.754 TFLOPS
2070 Super: 9.062 TFLOPS

Nvidia did blatantly cheat in the past. They also paid people to make others look better, which isn't cheating, although is definitely abuse of capitalism and should have had them thrown in jail. They are a shitty company. I owned a 970 and 1070 too. Great hardware, terrible ethics which ruined my experience and made me switch. Can you reference that visual quality issue on Linux? I know it's a thing on Windows, but I don't care nor run it enough to care about Windows. But in the end, saying they're cheating today when that is way behind us is pathetic and makes you look pathetic, which you are for dwelling on their past instead of today. They are a shit company, 100%, but they're not cheaters as much as they're using their market to do as they please, which they can do. 100%. Cheating is not the same as optimizing their hardware, in ANY way. Yeah, if they optimized their video output and ruined clarity, that is their choice. It's not cheating, though. So stop regurgitating moronic emotional arguments that don't even please AMD fans with how crap they are in 2020.

[shmerl]

If money is the only thing you care about, sure. But performance to actual performance is the topic being talked about, and AMD loses.

Not according to Phoronix tests. And not sure why you bring super cards. RX 5700 XT is matched to 2070, not to super ones, which are Nvidia's attempt to make higher end hardware to look better than AMD which beat them in their regular line. In comparable cards AMD beats Nvidia both in hardware and in the driver. Blob has no performance advantages, except may be through cheating, which doesn't count.

So stop spreading FUD and false claims, they are easy to refute.