3D Optimizations and UVD... AMD_hal.so!

[duby229]

yotambien, good ol' America has done that for years now

If everybody in the grocery store was carrying a gun, would you rob it? I didnt think so...

[bridgman]

None of which effect the Linux market AT ALL. What ATi NEEDS to do is simply say that we are not interested in providing any support for BD playback on linux. Period. Instead what we will do is release information about our hardware to the public that will enable you to develop your own entirely independent implementation, of which we hold no liability for.

The risk to AMD/ATI has nothing to do with the independent implementation, unless it publishes reverse engineered information. The risk is that information published or reverse-engineered for use in an independent implementation might *also* be used to attack the content protection paths on other OSes. Without robust content protection on those other OSes, we risk losing a big chunk of sales on those OSes (and those OSes count for maybe 98% of our sales).

Limitations to this documentation include but are not limited to any hardware that is required for restricted playback of protected content. In such cases where that information about that hardware can lead to playback of restricted content it will not be made available.

I think that's pretty much what we are doing, isn't it ?

It means that any implementation that is made will be made independently from ATi, and they will have no liability for it. It would be kinda like you hacking into the Iranian Embassy and Novell getting blamed for it because you used there OS....

Or, even crazier, a firearms manufacturer being sued because a criminal stole one of their products and used it in a robbery, or an airplane manufacturer being sued because of a pure "pilot error" crashes. Both happen every year.

This scenario is entirely possible, and would probably already have happend if ATi would have dropped fglrx year and a half ago.

What does dropping fglrx have to do with it ?

[amirel]

The risk to AMD/ATI has nothing to do with the independent implementation, unless it publishes reverse engineered information. The risk is that information published or reverse-engineered for use in an independent implementation might *also* be used to attack the content protection paths on other OSes. Without robust content protection on those other OSes, we risk losing a big chunk of sales on those OSes (and those OSes count for maybe 98% of our sales).

Sorry, bridgman. Everything above may be true. However, this is a significant problem for AMD/ATI. It actually means, that some other company (we all know, which one) can actually dictate AMD/ATI what to do and what not to do. Does the AMD/ATI have any plans to be independent or this is the policy of AMD/ATI to always allow this other company to say the final word?

p.s. Excuse me for bad English --- it's not my native language.

[bridgman]

That one company has been able to dictate to the PC industry for a long time, long before DRM was a factor. That said, I don't believe that the DRM issues are driven by any company in the PC industry. The companies which create and own the content (aka "Hollywood") dictate how their IP will be protected, and any OS developer who wants to offer legal playback of that content in their major markets needs to follow the rules established by the content owners.

The need to follow the content protection rules applies to all OS vendors, not just the biggest one. Linux is one of the (few) exceptions., where a collective decision has been made to forego the ability to provide legal-in-all-markets BD playback even if that results in a reduced market share. I suspect this is why the major distributions plan are not targeting the consumer market, but are trying to make a living selling into (and supporting) enterprise customers, where multimedia capabilities are not so important.

[energyman]

well, for you it is 30% but I am admin in a small (ca 80-120 pc) network. And there are only two fulltime linux users I know of. Which is a lot more than macosx users...

[curaga]

If everybody in the grocery store was carrying a gun, would you rob it? I didnt think so...

No, but I wouldn't feel safe shopping there either, when all that is needed to take my life is one pissed off customer or a glitch in a gun.

[duby229]

No, but I wouldn't feel safe shopping there either, when all that is needed to take my life is one pissed off customer or a glitch in a gun.

In my town your allowedto carry a concealed gun, provided that you also have your permit on you when carrying the gun. The only exception to this law is if a property owner clearly posted that you arent allowed to carry a concealed gun on their premises. The thing that I find highly interesting is that most places where your not allowed to carry a gun also has the highest crime rate. In the better parts of town you wont see a posting telling you that you cant carry a gun.

[energyman]

what is the problem ? fulltime linux user???
you can't use ATI VGA based linux pcs fulltime becourse you need to start windows XP for playing gammes in wine..
an nvidia based linux pc.. there is no XP needet!

i think with the right drivers for the 3D carts.. the market share will grow up!

I haven't windows installed. I stopped using windows 8 years ago. I also don't have wine installed. But when I was still nvidia user, most games didn't work with nvidia either - or at least t he games I cared about. I know because once in a while I tried. I just wanted to see if the games I once played on windows would work - they didn't.

Oh - and 'part time linux users' are maybe three or four. Still more than macos - but at the end there aren't 30% market share. Not even 10.

[duby229]

The risk to AMD/ATI has nothing to do with the independent implementation, unless it publishes reverse engineered information. The risk is that information published or reverse-engineered for use in an independent implementation might *also* be used to attack the content protection paths on other OSes. Without robust content protection on those other OSes, we risk losing a big chunk of sales on those OSes (and those OSes count for maybe 98% of our sales).



I think that's pretty much what we are doing, isn't it ?



Or, even crazier, a firearms manufacturer being sued because a criminal stole one of their products and used it in a robbery, or an airplane manufacturer being sued because of a pure "pilot error" crashes. Both happen every year.



What does dropping fglrx have to do with it ?

Hi Bridgeman, thanks for taking the time to respond. Awesome man, just awesome.

About Risk, just dont release the information that puts you at risk. It really is that simple. I dont knwo what else to tell you. I know it's hard work to look through all the documentation and to try and assign a risk value to all the information that is needed to write a modern graphics driver. I fully agree with you on that.

However what I DONT agree with is that Linux MUST except a closed source DRM implementation. That is bullshit.I hate to be so blunt but it's true. If that is what we need then Blueray can go suck on an apple whole.. Besides I totally disagree witrh you. Not only can we live successfully without DRM, we can still develop the means to play back restricted content without interference from you.

The point is that DRM will be cracked. With oyu, or without you. How can you use ATi as an excuse to hinder development of open source blueray playback when you know full well that it is inevitable. If ATi never even existed open source blueray playback would still have been inevitable. It's going to happen.

[rbmorse]

Someday Duby, I hope to visit your planet. It seems like a nice place.