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NVIDIA, Mentor Graphics May Harm GCC

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Mike Frett View Post
    So why bother coming to a Linux website if you don't even use Linux?. Just to troll or something?. A lot of people these days claiming to use Linux, yet spend 99% of their time using Windows and coming to places like this to "pretend". Either use it, or don't, stop being fake.

    One thing is for certain that I personally learned, you can't use both. Windows constantly locks you in and makes you come back, only when you fully break free of Windows can you truly use a different OS. Same thing applies to any addiction.
    speculations over speculations and in the end cheap assumptions.
    good job retard, here is a potato


    new form of linux users called linux nazis. "WAS? not a full time linux user? nach Auschwitz!"

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by Temar View Post
      Is that your last resort argument? I can tell you the answer: Simply because Linux is the best tool for my line of work. It's that easy, no hidden agendas and no fanboism, neither for free nor for closed software. I simply want a tool that works best and this new gcc backend is another step to an even better tool.
      Either thats not true, because there are this big big retards out there that care about freedom and hinder the success of such stuff you like and in macosx or windows u would not have such freedom "retards", or the other OSes have even bigger problems.

      If last is true, why do you use such harsh words for such small problems, or do you call everybody a asshole or worse stuff, or try to piss on the reputation of a professional journalist, or call it blogger doesnt matter, just because he has a slightly different oppionion on stuff than u?

      If thats only a small problem why this extreme anger, I dont get it.

      lets say u are right, and there are 50% very pragmatic lets even say there would be 80% very pragmatic and 20% very fanatic people in that community from your viewpoint, except even the pragmatic linus gave nvidia a "f you", why would I want to stay there, what does macosx really worse than linux except its unfree? Its hard to say but they do a pretty good job and on some fronts there even ahead, so why choose linux if you dont care about freedom?

      to the pragmatic guys, of course 80% are at least a bit pragmatic at least in what they are using (unfree bioses and firmwares...) but that doesnt neccessary mean that they all not wish 100% free software as their goal, they are maybe willing to take some compromises to come the goal closer but that doesnt mean that they dont share the same ideals.

      Basicly they are just not united in what the right way to get to that goal is, just get market dominance first, and care a bit less about freedom, or getting 100% freedom first and then get slowly more and more people to this 100% freedom.

      Maybe thats a bit simplified and only my opinion but k.

      And of course thats worth a news. the readers of this article can than desite for themself if they think that issiue is really a problem or not. So hidding such information just to calm some nvidia-fanboys is not the job of bloggers or journalists or something between.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Temar View Post
        All I can see is that many people on Phoronix have a blind hate for anything that is closed source.
        Why are people constantly surprised by this? You are on the Phoronix forums a website created by Michael Larabel "Through all of his work he is a Linux and free software advocate with strong support for GNOME, Wayland, LLVM, PHP, X.Org, Fedora, and Ubuntu, among other open-source projects. " source - http://www.michaellarabel.com

        Its no secret people here are strong vocal supporters of open source. The surprising thing is how many people feel the need to troll here criticising people (including Michael) for their views.

        Originally posted by Temar View Post
        Is that your last resort argument? I can tell you the answer: Simply because Linux is the best tool for my line of work. It's that easy, no hidden agendas and no fanboism, neither for free nor for closed software. I simply want a tool that works best and this new gcc backend is another step to an even better tool.
        Sure that explains why you use Linux but it doesn't explain why you visit a site created by a free software advocate and feel the need to criticise him for posting his views on his own website.

        Originally posted by Temar View Post
        Whereas most of the actual open source developers have a relaxed view.
        Most developers need to pay bills and feed their family they are paid to have a relaxed view. Its just the way the world works but there seems to be a pretty good balance in most major FOSS projects which is a good thing. The point I've been trying to make is gcc is a GNU project and is subject to higher standards than most open source projects hence why a standard Linux kernel is not considered part of the GNU project.

        Anyway I think I've eaten enough troll bait to keep me full for the next six months so I'm going to leave it at that.

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          Either thats not true, because there are this big big retards out there that care about freedom and hinder the success of such stuff you like and in macosx or windows u would not have such freedom "retards", or the other OSes have even bigger problems.

          If last is true, why do you use such harsh words for such small problems, or do you call everybody a asshole or worse stuff, or try to piss on the reputation of a professional journalist, or call it blogger doesnt matter, just because he has a slightly different oppionion on stuff than u?

          If thats only a small problem why this extreme anger, I dont get it.
          I don't see any anger in my posts, nor did I call anyone names. You are the one talking about "retards" and you see anger where there is none. I simply have a different opinion which you obviously don't like.


          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          And of course thats worth a news. the readers of this article can than desite for themself if they think that issiue is really a problem or not. So hidding such information just to calm some nvidia-fanboys is not the job of bloggers or journalists or something between.
          This is not about fanboism, I could not care less about Nvidia or AMD. As I have written multiple times in the past, I use the tools which work best for me. Today this is Nvidia but tomorrow this might very well be AMD. I need a solution that works and not a religion.

          Also this is not about hiding information. Michael's article is just plain FUD, he could have very well presented the same article as a real news article. Instead he chose to use click-bait but in the end he should no complain about vendors not sending any cards for testing.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by tarceri View Post
            Its no secret people here are strong vocal supporters of open source. The surprising thing is how many people feel the need to troll here criticising people (including Michael) for their views.

            Sure that explains why you use Linux but it doesn't explain why you visit a site created by a free software advocate and feel the need to criticise him for posting his views on his own website.
            Well, Michael offers a forum and invites anyone for discussions. It seems however that some people on this forum are not interested in an open discussion but rather circle jerk with their own kind and call anyone with a different opinion a troll.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Temar View Post
              Also this is not about hiding information. Michael's article is just plain FUD, he could have very well presented the same article as a real news article. Instead he chose to use click-bait but in the end he should no complain about vendors not sending any cards for testing.
              So you have other information, feel free to share it, and show how "plain FUD" the article is.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by log0 View Post
                show how "plain FUD" the article is.
                Are you kidding me? Just read the article. Do you really think this article could not have been written without spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt?

                All those quotes like...
                NVIDIA refuses to publicly disclose their instruction set. They force any company targeting their hardware to use PTX. They claim it's for portability, but that's a lie. AMD's GPU instruction set changes, but they and *EVERYONE* else in the industry publishes their details no problem. The arguments about protecting their IP is just bs.. How can *everyone* else publish the details and open source drivers, but stay in business?"
                ...which are not even true (as someone pointed out here), could have been paraphrased in a way which still show the concerns of the informant but keep a bit of objectivity. That's the difference between journalism and sensationalism.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Temar View Post
                  Are you kidding me? Just read the article. Do you really think this article could not have been written without spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt?
                  I have read the article, thanks. And I have actually checked the info about Mentor Graphics instead of calling it "plain FUD"...

                  Their OpenACC implementation is using PTX and CUDA as target. No FUD here. Go check it yourself if you want.

                  All those quotes like...


                  ...which are not even true (as someone pointed out here), could have been paraphrased in a way which still show the concerns of the informant but keep a bit of objectivity. That's the difference between journalism and sensationalism.
                  Oh, so you feel somehow hurt about the article not beeing nice to nvidia, fscking rofl. Don't feel sad, nvidia will most certainly survive this malicious attack on their closed source efforts.

                  Btw nvidia is in fact only exposing PTX to implementors. See no FUD here either. Again feel free to check it yourself.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by tarceri View Post
                    Parallel Thread Execution (PTX) is a pseudo-assembly language. The graphics driver contains a compiler which translates the PTX into a binary code which can be run on the processing cores.

                    So yes the PTX compiler is a closed source implementation. Sure GCC would have the open source code to generate PTX but then it has a dependency on the closed source driver to compiler it.
                    I don't see how it's a dependency. GCC receives source code as an input, processes it, and outputs a file. It's none of GCC's concern what the file is used for. You're free to compile proprietary software with GCC, for instance. So I don't see any difference between the two cases here. Besides, you can't be sure that in the future there won't be open PTX parsers.

                    Unless GCC does have to actually rely on proprietary software to produce the output? I don't know enough about this issue to comment on that, but at least the information you provided so far doesn't prove that it really is a dependency.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Ok cant help myself one more post.

                      Originally posted by Temar View Post
                      Well, Michael offers a forum and invites anyone for discussions. It seems however that some people on this forum are not interested in an open discussion but rather circle jerk with their own kind and call anyone with a different opinion a troll.
                      Funny that its a bit like those who call people with different opinions fan boys, and while calling everything FUD. Its also funny how once questioned those same people go from self proclaimed sarcasm in there opening post line
                      Originally posted by Temar View Post
                      And? I also need a Nvidia card to use it in the first place. Oh my god, they are taking my freedom away to use any card I want!!1!11
                      (often a calling card of a good troll) to suddenly wanting to engage in an open discussion.

                      Comment

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