NVIDIA 535.86.05 Linux Driver Fixes Excessive Memory Use, Kernel Panic On Full vRAM

[blackiwid]

AMD have one core market for their GPUs, games consoles, everything else they put so little effort into even the volunteer opensource driver beats their closed source proprietary one.

I disagree besides the RTX 4090 all Nvidia Gaming GPUs are utter trash AMD wins at each money price point, maybe here and there a 4080 makes sense, but but alle the other cards are total garbage, the 4070ti is similar speed than the 7900XT but the latter is slightly cheaper and has 20 instead of 12gb ram, and even today the 12gb runs full on some games, like Hogwards where 16gb is needed for RT. So this card don't loads all textures and look like shit on the 4070ti. The 4060 line is a total joke especially the 16gb version... you get way faster or cheaper cards from amds 6xxx gen the 4070 also get's beaten by 6xxx cards even it's closer but AMD is not even done with that generation the 7700 and 7800 will destroy the rest of all 5 4060 / 4070 cards.

And that all with a A half of their cards only released and B the generation has a problem that makes them 20-30% slower than they were planed. So basically with one hand bound on their back they gain lot's of market share in this generation.

Only here in lemming germany some rare people defend here and there Nvidia because we pay like 5-10 times as much for power than on the rest of the world, so because of suicidal decisions of our horrible current government, Nvidia is not completely out of the game but even still in that case still many Nvidia owners switch to AMD.

[mSparks]

I disagree besides the RTX 4090 all Nvidia Gaming GPUs are utter trash AMD wins at each money price point, maybe here and there a 4080 makes sense, but but alle the other cards are total garbage, the 4070ti is similar speed than the 7900XT but the latter is slightly cheaper and has 20 instead of 12gb ram, and even today the 12gb runs full on some games, like Hogwards where 16gb is needed for RT. So this card don't loads all textures and look like shit on the 4070ti. The 4060 line is a total joke especially the 16gb version... you get way faster or cheaper cards from amds 6xxx gen the 4070 also get's beaten by 6xxx cards even it's closer but AMD is not even done with that generation the 7700 and 7800 will destroy the rest of all 5 4060 / 4070 cards.

And that all with a A half of their cards only released and B the generation has a problem that makes them 20-30% slower than they were planed. So basically with one hand bound on their back they gain lot's of market share in this generation.

Only here in lemming germany some rare people defend here and there Nvidia because we pay like 5-10 times as much for power than on the rest of the world, so because of suicidal decisions of our horrible current government, Nvidia is not completely out of the game but even still in that case still many Nvidia owners switch to AMD.

for gaming, AMDs hardware is great - that comes with targeting their silicon at games consoles.

But on the games consoles, the console manufacturer (microsoft:xbox/sonylaystation) does most if not all of the work on the drivers, AMD has a very limited team building the drivers since they rely on others to do that for them.

On PC that "others" is mostly "unpaid" volunteers building AMDVLK/Mesa.

NVidias core market is datacenter and GPU compute, they have a highly skilled and experienced team doing it all in house.

This is why AMD silicon tends to be cheaper than NV, AMD dont put the same investment into their drivers.

Great silicon is useless for production use without great, solid drivers to make use of it, RADV barely cuts the mustard even for games, does anyone even use AMDVLK/AMDGPU pro?

[blackiwid]

On PC that "others" is mostly "unpaid" volunteers building AMDVLK/Mesa.

I think most work for the radeon kernel drivers comes from AMD, outside of that maybe Valve would be second and they hire over the years more and more people.

Nvidia is a software company, they rely on getting slightly ahead in some software field then have some defacto monopolies for a while. They call themself a software company even officially they don't sell software but produce and sell and make all money by selling hardware or at least mostly. They only indirectly maybe sell software with the hardware.

AMD comes from a very very bad time where people wondered if they go bankrupt, had to sell lot's of stuff, so you can't pigeonhole them into a permanent state, with cpus they were even further behind their Bulldozer was utter trash, while with GPUs it's mostly "ohh we used Cuda first so we are to lazy to learn something different", as main argument for not using them. So for there products to be similarly good, is not good enough, they must offer much better products much better deals, to even get considered because of the software monopoly.

But people also talked similar with Graphics Cards that AMD is totally failing. Now they profit from Nvidia trying to keep their profit per chip at 5000% so if they just reduce their margin they can win, but it's not just that, it's better vram configuration, probably because they were less efficient slightly with VRAM suddenly becomes a advantage because they just added like 30-50% more ram on each competitor to make up for 5-10% less efficient ram usage and therefor don't suffer from the VRAM Inflation in modern games.

But it's also more than that, Nvidia didn't just by mistake had less vram in the lower end cards or because they need a bit less vram, they want to sell more cards and more expensive ones, so A they made their lowend cards intentionally bad to bully their customers to buy more expensive cards and B the 7900XT as example will in 1 2 3 years will still stay pretty great while the 4070 in 1 year will be utter trash because all games will run out of vram, which is good in Nvidias book because that coerces this customers to pay buy a new card. And if we add let's say 100 Euro extra costs for having to replace the graphics card earlier/more often, the Nvidia Products would look even worse, but that is the hidden cost Nvidia wants to hide from you. (not that this is the only planed Obsolescence that they don't port DLSS 3.0 to RTX 3xxx and surely something like DLSS 4.0 or something else to RTX 4xxx comes on top of that.

Also I think not working with a community and bruteforce your features with a forked OS driver that replaces 50% of the operation system is a Shortcut method that results in a crappier product with crashes and stuff you admitted, but it allows you to offer some features faster, if you don't have to send emails or write on kernel mailing lists, you save some time.

I mean we see even now what will happen with RTX 4xxx (at least up to 4070) with the 30xx cards, back then they seemed to be more interesting than the 6xxx cards from AMD nobody bought them, (well mining prices didn't help I guess, but the 30xx did also have this problem), now they are heavily seeked, the same will happen in 1 year with the lower 40xx gen cards.

[mSparks]

I think most work for the radeon kernel drivers comes from AMD, outside of that maybe Valve would be second and they hire over the years more and more people.

Nvidia is a software company, they rely on getting slightly ahead in some software field then have some defacto monopolies for a while. They call themself a software company even officially they don't sell software but produce and sell and make all money by selling hardware or at least mostly. They only indirectly maybe sell software with the hardware.

AMD comes from a very very bad time where people wondered if they go bankrupt, had to sell lot's of stuff, so you can't pigeonhole them into a permanent state, with cpus they were even further behind their Bulldozer was utter trash, while with GPUs it's mostly "ohh we used Cuda first so we are to lazy to learn something different", as main argument for not using them. So for there products to be similarly good, is not good enough, they must offer much better products much better deals, to even get considered because of the software monopoly.

But people also talked similar with Graphics Cards that AMD is totally failing. Now they profit from Nvidia trying to keep their profit per chip at 5000% so if they just reduce their margin they can win, but it's not just that, it's better vram configuration, probably because they were less efficient slightly with VRAM suddenly becomes a advantage because they just added like 30-50% more ram on each competitor to make up for 5-10% less efficient ram usage and therefor don't suffer from the VRAM Inflation in modern games.

But it's also more than that, Nvidia didn't just by mistake had less vram in the lower end cards or because they need a bit less vram, they want to sell more cards and more expensive ones, so A they made their lowend cards intentionally bad to bully their customers to buy more expensive cards and B the 7900XT as example will in 1 2 3 years will still stay pretty great while the 4070 in 1 year will be utter trash because all games will run out of vram, which is good in Nvidias book because that coerces this customers to pay buy a new card. And if we add let's say 100 Euro extra costs for having to replace the graphics card earlier/more often, the Nvidia Products would look even worse, but that is the hidden cost Nvidia wants to hide from you. (not that this is the only planed Obsolescence that they don't port DLSS 3.0 to RTX 3xxx and surely something like DLSS 4.0 or something else to RTX 4xxx comes on top of that.

Also I think not working with a community and bruteforce your features with a forked OS driver that replaces 50% of the operation system is a Shortcut method that results in a crappier product with crashes and stuff you admitted, but it allows you to offer some features faster, if you don't have to send emails or write on kernel mailing lists, you save some time.

I mean we see even now what will happen with RTX 4xxx (at least up to 4070) with the 30xx cards, back then they seemed to be more interesting than the 6xxx cards from AMD nobody bought them, (well mining prices didn't help I guess, but the 30xx did also have this problem), now they are heavily seeked, the same will happen in 1 year with the lower 40xx gen cards.

meanwhile, in the real world. the cheapest current nvidia card demolishes the most expensive amd card in blender, CUDA, embedded extensively in finance and other high value software is exclusively Nvidia, openCL has a lot of catching up to do - and is closed source even on AMD

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/y46001/are_we_ever_going_to_see_good_amd_opencl_drivers/

And if all you want to do is play games, just buy a friggin games console. closest PSVR2 equilivelent on PC is Varjo, and thats $8500 for the headset and $1500 a year subscription fee for the drivers (and you dont even get Linux support)

[blackiwid]

meanwhile, in the real world. the cheapest current nvidia card demolishes the most expensive amd card in blender, CUDA, embedded extensively in finance and other high value software is exclusively Nvidia, openCL has a lot of catching up to do - and is closed source even on AMD

1. I did talk about gaming so I don't know how your talk about openCL conters that? You seem to have a problem when somebody says something bad about Nvidia even if in the mentioned context it's true.

2. is openCL even relevant anymore for blender openCL is deprecated and they use ROCm, is ROCm only for blender or is it a attempt to replace openCL for more/everything? I just googled a bit and it's supposed to 100% replace it featurewise.

So the only reason to use openCL would be either legacy code or because it's maybe vendor independent in the way that it is supported by other vendors, but CUDA shows only support from 1 Vendor doesn't hurt and also Intel with OneApi goes the same way.

3. then you criticize AMD for openCL being closed source, I am not even sure what that means, OpenCL is a open standard but you mean that only the proprietary driver supports it?

And Opencl opensource support seems to be on the way for amd:

Note: Currently only Intel GPUs are supported through the iris driver. Support for AMD GPUs through radeonsi should come soon, and for other GPUs and drivers at a later date.

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Rusticl-RadeonSI-CTS-Near

But in this thread I did not even make Licenses a argument. Well I guess I made the argument for display drivers, but even there the proprietary mixed driver of AMD beats Nvidias approach, because it's just a addon and I don't expect display flickering or boot problems just because there is some bug in the proprietary userspace code from AMD. But my point with the driver was more a technical argument in this case not some ideology, even I am all for that, too

[NeoMorpheus]

You seem to have a problem when somebody says something bad about Nvidia even if in the mentioned context it's true.

I was told that ngreedia rabid fanbois dont exist in this forum, but as we can see by his relentless pursuit of validation (dont worry dude, Dear Leader Jensen appreciates your efforts), they indeed exist!

[mSparks]

1. I did talk about gaming so I don't know how your talk about openCL conters that? You seem to have a problem when somebody says something bad about Nvidia even if in the mentioned context it's true.

2. is openCL even relevant anymore for blender openCL is deprecated and they use ROCm, is ROCm only for blender or is it a attempt to replace openCL for more/everything? I just googled a bit and it's supposed to 100% replace it featurewise.

So the only reason to use openCL would be either legacy code or because it's maybe vendor independent in the way that it is supported by other vendors, but CUDA shows only support from 1 Vendor doesn't hurt and also Intel with OneApi goes the same way.

3. then you criticize AMD for openCL being closed source, I am not even sure what that means, OpenCL is a open standard but you mean that only the proprietary driver supports it?

And Opencl opensource support seems to be on the way for amd:

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Rusticl-RadeonSI-CTS-Near

But in this thread I did not even make Licenses a argument. Well I guess I made the argument for display drivers, but even there the proprietary mixed driver of AMD beats Nvidias approach, because it's just a addon and I don't expect display flickering or boot problems just because there is some bug in the proprietary userspace code from AMD. But my point with the driver was more a technical argument in this case not some ideology, even I am all for that, too

You are in a thread talking about nvidia on linux.
which is almost exclusively GPU compute by firms spending 7 or 8 figure+ sums on hardware like the nvidia DGX, running blender render farms or even, yes, doing crypto stuff.

Im still trying to work out what you think gaming on AMD has to do with that, and why you wouldnt just buy a games console.