NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Linux Gaming Performance

[Grinness]

Well, seriously, fuck off. Over 95% of desktop computers in the world run Windows and Microsoft cannot just shit on people like Linux developers do.

What!?!?

Have you ever been on a call with MS as private user?
You are kidding, right?

In my last corporate experience it took 4++ weeks to sort out a Windows Authentication issue (Kerberos), while trying to deny that they support it and attempting to sell us any kind of alternative solution.

[Grinness]

Yea, Linux comes without any warranty. But, what do you wanna do if Microsoft renders your device broken after a update. Sue them? Of course you could but thats kinda useless if you aren't a US citizen as they just ignore foreign curt ruling.
So thank you for caring, I care too.

There are serious issues with your sentence on warranty.

If you mean support, you can buy it directly from qualified vendors (btw for the _full_ stack, including RDBMs coming with the distro), e.g.: RedHat
At a fraction of the price asked by Windows, Oracle, ect, etc

In fact, companies that deploy Linux (mostly servers) do subscribe for support.
Desktop?
If it is for home users, you do not need it (try to call MS for your PC problems -- if those are not actually caused by Windows itself -- virus/malware anyone?)
For corporate desktops, there are solutions (e.g. RedHat, SUSE, maybe even Ubuntu)

According to MS EULA (AFAIK) their software essentially comes without "warranty" -- once you agree and install

[birdie]

Yes, you guessed right, buggy firmware. So what should they do, include some dirty hack just because someone messed up the firmware?

Buggy hardware has existed since the onset of computing in 1981. For some reasons Windows, Mac OS X and Chrome OS all make it work, Linux kernel developers are arguing why they don't want to properly support/enable it. No one gives a fuck! People want to work with Linux, not listen to this "we implemented it according to the specs" crap.

Yea, Linux comes without any warranty. But, what do you wanna do if Microsoft renders your device broken after a update. Sue them? Of course you could but thats kinda useless if you aren't a US citizen as they just ignore foreign curt ruling.
So thank you for caring, I care too.

Well, seriously, fuck off. Over 95% of desktop computers in the world run Windows and Microsoft cannot just shit on people like Linux developers do.

And how nice of you to ignore the rest of my comment. Again, an Open source idealist, more like a zealot who cannot see beyond his nose. It's all perfect in your Open Source world except it's broken left and right and no one gives a damn.

[Grinness]

Then make the open stack better than the closed stack and I will use the open stack. Make AMD GPUs faster than NVIDIA GPUs. Make OpenCL better than CUDA. Have day-1 Mesa driver support for AMD GPUs at launch that's superior to the day-1 NVIDIA driver support for NVIDIA GPUs at launch.

A few point:

1. The open stack is BETTER than the closed stack -- see MESA, RADV and ACO (on top of wayland, AMDGPU kernel driver, ect) and how performance improve at every release cycle
2. OpenCL is an OPEN standard, the only disadvantage is that programs (kernel) need to be compiled the first time (nvcc does it beforehand) -- see perf comparison even within NVidia line (CUDA is horribly closed eco-system - I used it for years and moved away)
3. OpenCL is essentially being replaced by other standards --e.g.: please see Vulkan Compute and ncnn* (I can run YoloV4-lite at 85+ FPS on a rx480)
4, NVidia day-1 support is via BETA drivers (WOW!), AMD comes with the release cycle of open source projects (e.g. kernel + Mesa); use a rolling distro if you want to take advantage of it

Then, if you still prefer Nvidia, please go and vote with your wallet.

*: see https://github.com/Tencent/ncnn

[Raka555]

Even so it's still very large, the Intel drivers barely register by comparison. As discrete cards become ever more complex there are also disadvantages of shipping drivers with the kernel.

It is the source code that is that big, not the actual end result the compiler produces.
In my books it does not count as bloat. It is all about the end result.
The header files are suppose to be meta data to help the compiler do its thing, and when used correctly, should not produce any machine code.

It's 366k lines of the 2.71 million lines of code that is actual C code.

Compared to Intel:

For GPU driver size comparison, the Intel "i915" kernel driver supporting form old i915 graphics through Gen12 / Xe Graphics with Linux 5.9 is at 209k lines of code with another 39.2k lines of comments and 48k blank lines.

So, it is 366k lines for AMD vs 209k lines for Intel, and it is fair to say AMD supports a lot more hardware.

[Slartifartblast]

Intel does not support a large list of GPUs over multiple different GPU architectures with one driver, they just support a few gens of their very generic integrated GPU. So of course the register header files will be a lot larger for the AMDGPU driver.

Hence the second sentence:

As discrete cards become ever more complex there are also disadvantages of shipping drivers with the kernel.

[Alexmitter]

Or take this bug for example. Multiple, literally millions of systems are affected, and Linux developers say some crap why it can't be solved: Well, TBH, it is probably that there is no way to fix this. The root cause is that ACPI claims some resources that will possibly be used by the ACPI AML code, but the native nct6775 driver also requests the same piece of resource.

Yes, you guessed right, buggy firmware. So what should they do, include some dirty hack just because someone messed up the firmware?

Or take this bug which took me a good amount of debugging and the help of a number of Linux kernel developers including Linus Torvalds himself. The bug rendered a good amount of laptops dead on boot. No one cared except me. People would have given up on Linux entirely if not me. That's all so fucking disgusting. An Open Source dream. More like an open source hell where no one is responsible for anything at all.

Yea, Linux comes without any warranty. But, what do you wanna do if Microsoft renders your device broken after a update. Sue them? Of course you could but thats kinda useless if you aren't a US citizen as they just ignore foreign curt ruling.
So thank you for caring, I care too.

[Alexmitter]

Even so it's still very large, the Intel drivers barely register by comparison. As discrete cards become ever more complex there are also disadvantages of shipping drivers with the kernel.

Intel does not support a large list of GPUs over multiple different GPU architectures with one driver, they just support a few gens of their very generic integrated GPU. So of course the register header files will be a lot larger for the AMDGPU driver.

[Slartifartblast]

Just because one news writer does not understand register level header files does not make an open source driver bloat.

Even so it's still very large, the Intel drivers barely register by comparison. As discrete cards become ever more complex there are also disadvantages of shipping drivers with the kernel.

[birdie]

You truely did not understand OpenSource. If you want to run binary only stuff there is Windows and macOS for you. "I hate closed source" is what people like Linus and all the others like me wrote all the ecosystem up out of nothing for 30 years. And now you ant to tell us we should accept undebugable, and questionable security binary only drivers in our kernel? There is nothing self-righteous in having register lever specifications to write software and drivers for your hardware.

And I never said I wanted to run binary only stuff. Again, open source fans see the world only in black and white, while it's shades of grey and on your shiny PC with 100% open source Linux you're still running closed source firmware for your motherboard (UEFI BIOS), SSD/HDD, NIC, WiFi/BlueTooth and GPU. How do you sleep at night? You must be waking up every half an hour screaming in pain.

Undebugable, buggy vendor drivers and OS is exactly what OpenSource, Linux & BSD is about. Funny how fanboy users repeatedly want to sugar talk that to the actual freaking developers.

Sorry, this is just crap. 99.99% of users out there cannot debug anything even if they get paid to do that. Serious AMD/Intel GPU bugs sometimes take years to resolve despite "it's all open source and everyone can contribute" except only core Intel and AMD developers do contribute because GPU drivers are the most complicated drivers in the known universe.

Again, crap on top of crap. You live in an open source fairy tale where Open Source software is perfect, only right of this moment I have at least half a dozen bugs in the Linux kernel itself for my hardware some of which were reported years ago and no one gives a fuck.

Or take this bug for example. Multiple, literally millions of systems are affected, and Linux developers say some crap why it can't be solved: Well, TBH, it is probably that there is no way to fix this. The root cause is that ACPI claims some resources that will possibly be used by the ACPI AML code, but the native nct6775 driver also requests the same piece of resource.

Or take this bug which took me a good amount of debugging and the help of a number of Linux kernel developers including Linus Torvalds himself. The bug rendered a good amount of laptops dead on boot. No one cared except me. People would have given up on Linux entirely if not me. That's all so fucking disgusting. An Open Source dream. More like an open source hell where no one is responsible for anything at all.