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Intel's Mitigation For CVE-2019-14615 Graphics Vulnerability Obliterates Gen7 iGPU Performance

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  • JMB9
    replied
    It is interesting that Intel does not see a problem to take away 90% of performance and still trying to pretend that they care for security.
    From my point of view Intel Management lost scope. First of all, Intel has NO desktop CPU which would not require mitigations ... after so many years.
    Second they not even offer their customers big estates for new systems after having caused those problems grossly negligent.
    My Haswell with Intel i7‑4770T is no longer usable since Nov./Dec. 2019 - and the main system due to lack of a real new system - and hey I am really glad not to habe bought a newer Intel system - close with Skylake not bought due to Linux problems - close to Coffee Lake Refresh - still graphics of Haswell (DP 1.2, max res being 4k; mitigations still necessary) - and this will be the same for Comet Lake.
    I am now set to buy Ryzen 5 3600 (Zen2) & Radeon RX 5500 XT (RDNA Navi 14) to have a performant system ready for 8k (waiting of K|L-ubuntu 20.04 LTS to get kernel 5.5 and Mesa 20.0 (or a 19.3, which seems not that likely ...).
    Since 1987 I have never bought other CPUs than those from Intel (really a lot of systems) - and with current behaviour I may finally end buying IBM Power with AMD graphics someday if things keep that way. This was my 1st professional work in IT - so just back to the roots.
    We still have CS/CSME (and on AMD side PSP) as security nightmares and a symbol of extreme madness.
    Just thinking of an unpatched Minix system running more privileged than the Linux kernel. That's the security Intel is so proud of - ouch!
    My words can not describe what I want to express.
    Just to get a little work done I just switched off mitigations altogether - but one should also revoke the firmware disablements of the last years.
    I worked as Senior System Engineer and Unix Consultant for more than ten years - I hardened servers for banks, provided security audits.
    Intel not even try to admit its faults or help its users - and like Apple and Microsoft they make more money with worse products.
    And Google talking about `Moonshot' for some of that patching - which is useless concerning hardening. Only making it harder to see the many open doors.
    If anyone would reason about current x86 server technology would have a high barrier to getting control of I would just smile and go away.
    We will all have to make decisions ... and this game is no longer funny.
    I would not trust any corporation - and I lost trust in FSF after them pressing out RMS - so what is next?
    This world got absolutely crazy ... and maybe we must build up a community with an influence bigger than the biggest IT companies to resolve it.
    With people on the board who one could put faith in ... and those are extremely rare currently.
    Or we admit that we all lost and just give up ...
    But we never were farther apart from control of HW and SW than we are today - that may be good for secret services (being the cause of terrorist actions all over the planet) and other criminal organizations, but it's a killer of democracy - and no one can neglect it any more!

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  • birdie
    replied
    God, so much drama/fuss about nothing. Anything before Broadwell with Intel Iris is unsuitable even for light gaming (unless you're playing Adobe Flash based games in which case a GPU is not even needed) and Broadwell/SkyLake U(HD) iGPUs are barely affected.

    Once I tried playing an Unreal Engine 3 based game on an Intel HD 520 (Intel Skylake) - I got 12 fps at 800x600 resolution and minimum graphics settings with AA turned off. Whoever says they are gaming on Intel HD are either lying or they are not really gaming - they run casual games with absolutely basic graphics. Intel HD graphics before Ice Lake cannot run Crysis at any resolution or settings with playable frame rates and it's a game from 2007!

    If you're into light gaming you must have at the very least a Ryzen 3000/4000 based laptop (the 4000 series is yet to be released) or something running a GeForce MX250 as a bare minimum.
    Last edited by birdie; 01-16-2020, 03:40 PM.

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  • caligula
    replied
    Originally posted by uxmkt View Post
    Sure. Just because one is a "gamer" does not mean one is always seeking to run titles requiring AAA+ hardware. Some gamers are quite happy with playing (3D) classics or 2D games like platformers and puzzles.
    Um, there's a "tiny" performance gap between Ivy Bridge iGPU and the requirements of modern "AAA+" games. For instance, a simple $100 external GPU (heck, even the $150 AMD 2400G which includes a CPU) is far superior, probably 10 times faster than crappy old iGPUs. Then again, it's way slower than $500 cards. Playing some 2d platformers every now and then does not make you a gamer.

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  • DoMiNeLa10
    replied
    Is there a way to bypass this vulnerability by ensuring only one OpenGL workload is running on the GPU to minimize context switches? This could mean that running a single game and no compositor could yield massive perf gains over running one.

    Leave a comment:


  • FPScholten
    replied
    Originally posted by wizard69 View Post

    I wish that was true. In many corporate environments you get what is issued. Need to run 3D CAD on your laptop - though luck!
    Absolutely true, in our corporate environment we have about 400 Haswell based laptops and a couple of desktops still in operational daily use. Business policy is that the issued laptop should be used at least 5 years before it may be replaced by anything new, the last (new) Haswell laptops were issued 3 and a half years ago so there are quite a lot of people are being hit by this...
    And yes, many of these are used by engineers who use 3D software.
    Even the laptop I am using now is Haswell based, purchased 4 and a half year ago. Wonder how it's performance will be affected by this. I sometimes play light games through wine....

    Leave a comment:


  • chocolate
    replied
    Very sad day for those who, like me, bought a Clevo W740SU in late 2013 or early 2014 hoping its Iris Pro 5200 could be good enough for development and yes, even light gaming.
    Unfortunately, modern OpenGL support has come too late, Vulkan won't ever be complete, and now the i965 driver will enter maintenance mode. This huge performance impact is the last nail in the coffin.

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  • uxmkt
    replied
    Originally posted by caligula View Post
    What the heck, there are gamers who run Steam on machines with Ivy Bridge / Haswell iGPUs?
    Sure. Just because one is a "gamer" does not mean one is always seeking to run titles requiring AAA+ hardware. Some gamers are quite happy with playing (3D) classics or 2D games like platformers and puzzles.

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  • caligula
    replied
    Originally posted by Dark-Show View Post
    if you're a gamer.
    What the heck, there are gamers who run Steam on machines with Ivy Bridge / Haswell iGPUs?

    Leave a comment:


  • schmidtbag
    replied
    I always felt Intel's iGPU performance was decent considering the wattage. Now..... not so much. At this point, it's basically good enough for compositor effects or some WebGL apps.

    I'm more curious how video playback will be affected, particularly in low-end chips. Intel was often chosen for low-power 4K playback, but I wonder if that can be done anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • wizard69
    replied
    Originally posted by misGnomer View Post
    Another victim here.

    My personal desktop and laptops have been hit by all the Intel mitigations already, but as I occasionally use the (Haswell) desktop for light casual gaming this looks like the end of the rope.

    One of my personal environmental requirements is energy efficiency and until now Haswell just about made the grade. Doesn't look like the hardware is suitable for post-retirement media service either.

    I don't have too many positive feelings towards Intel Corp. these days, but I'm still grateful for their Linux devs for the great work they've done over the years. This isn't their fault.


    Now, looking into the future I would love to see some *standardized* and *modular* laptop designs where most components are user-replaceable (even if in a workshop) and upgradeable, batteries included. Few of us actually *needs* a wafer-thin fully glued closed-box "com-book" that needs to be disposed of after only two years of use.

    Meanwhile it would be nice if I could take my still otherwise perfect Intel laptop to a shop and have them replace the Intel innards with new (ARM or AMD?) parts instead of having to 'landfill' the entire unit.


    Back to the Haswell desktop and its graphics implosion: one partial solution could be disabling the iGPU and getting a really energy efficient latest gen *passively cooled* graphics card. Looks like Intel themselves have had half a year to consider providing just such a solution, but somehow I don't think that idea ever passed their beancounters. AMD could do it too, and for many graphics-less Ryzen systems such a modern-but-low-end card could be ideal, but where are they?
    I like some of your points, especially anything to do with batteries. I’d rather see a little regulation dictating easy to replace batteries instead of breaking up big tech. At least until we have batteries thAt last 15 years or more. These days you are lucky to get 2 years out of a battery which is no where near the usable life in the hardware.

    This by the way is an issue with multiple perspectives. Easy to remove and recycle batteries for example are an environmental issue. Making battery replacement wildly expensive is a consumer rights issue. I just see the trend to difficult to replace batteries to be a huge inconvenience for the consumer that just drives bad behavior.

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