Apple Announces The M4 Chip With Up To 10 CPU Cores

[Developer12]

Yes. CPU is slow because a lot of software is not optimized for ARM and some requires emulation (and M3 is already pretty weak). GPU is useless if you want to game because wine/GPK runs around 30% of the games that linux can and at the performance compared to a weak integrated GPU in celerons. (I bought M3 Pro 18/512 to compare to my other devices, it is useless at everything and I will sell it soon)

Then that isn't an argument for getting an eGPU.

[drakonas777]

LOL….what demonstrable bullshit ! Especially the part of ….”It’s 2024 and Apple’s switch to ARM was a mistake.” I mean….I don’t even know where to begin other than there is a point where one stops being a troll, which is a 21st Century synonym for “asshole”, to being a liar. And buddy…you went there.

It is a demonstrable fact that Intel and AMD and Nvidia are technically incapable of producing anything like Apple Silicon M4. If ANY of them could they would have already. Hell…what more proof do you need than Microsoft working with a post-Nuvia Qualcomm to make a Microsoft version of the MacBook Pro ? LOL….you are such a blatant moron. Ever since Apple became a company Microsoft had used them as their de-facto Research and Development arm both in OS development and hardware development. Windows ring a bell ? Zune ring a bell ? Windows Phone ring a bell ? Thin and light laptops as a compute platform ring a bell ? Surface tablets ring a bell ? And now when Microsoft wants to copy a MacBook Pro and goes and re-engineers Windows 11 into something that can be run on ARM do they call Intel ? No. Do they call AMD ? No. Do they call Nvidia which actually makes the most performant ARM based CPU and compute platforms for AI Supercomputing on the planet and arguably the most performant GPUs on the planet ? No. Do they call Samsung who has experience making ARM based SoCs for Android tablets and phones ? No.

They call Qualcomm. But only after Qualcomm buys Nuvia and shifts the entire Snapdragon design over to it. And Nuvia was founded by ex-Apple Silicon engineers and designers who wanted to make ARM based server chips with Apple Silicon design knowledge but Apple wasn’t interested. Yet. For news is breaking over from the Wall Street Journal and picked up by The Register that Apple has a skunkworks program that is doing with the M series chips what the Nuvia wanted to do but didn’t have the patience to wait on Apple to get there. Only to have Qualcomm fuck up Nuvia and lie about its performance according to Charlie Demerjian over at SemiAccurate.

But you keep on believing that Apple made a mistake. LOL….SMFH !!

it seems more like Apple is technically incapable of innovating ARM since the ARM core in M4 is more or less the same shit was in M1. Keep this trend and switching back to x86 is going to be a very real option very soon LOL

BTW, what's the ISA level on M4? Is it 8.7 like on M3? The "most advanced chip" with 5 years old dated ISA and still no SVE2 LOL

M1/M2 is barely competitive with ZEN3 in efficiency (in MT, cpu based vactorized FP workloads) even with a full node advantage and expensive packaging techniques LOL

Not even N3P or N3X, only N3E. Well, at least not that N3B garbage in M3 LOL

[Jumbotron]

Just be to clear on who's the... cosmically ignorant moron here? Did you buy an M2 Pro based Macbook Pro 2023? Any Mac with a M2 with 256GB of SSD and M2 Pro with 512GB of SSD space received a single NAND chip. In 2023 there was the M3's which don't have Apple going cheap with the NAND chips, but if you did buy an M2 then you have half the performance compared to the M1's and M3's, and of course most Windows PCs. Also to continue with this... cosmically ignorant moron is the fact that Apple has pushed developers to put games on their Macs. Games like Death Stranding, Resident Evil 4/Village, and Baldur's Gate 3. Apple is even pushing these games on their iPhone 5 Pro and Pro Max.

Also want to point out that this a Linux forum. Did you Apple's make a wrong turn at the Apple forum? You can't even install Linux on these devices. Definitely not on iPads.

2023 M3 Pro equipped MacBook Pro 18gb RAM and 512gb SSD

2023 IPhone 15 Pro with Apple Silicon A17 Pro

2015 HP desktop with AMD Bristol Ridge APU running Ubuntu 23.10 16gb RAM, 1 TB SSD which replaces a 1 TB HDD

2015 Lenovo laptop with AMD Bristol Ridge APU 16gb RAM, Ubuntu 20.04 awaiting a 1TB SSD to come in to replace dead 1TB HDD so I can move up to Ubuntu 24.04

Old hand me down Dell desktop with unknown Intel iSomeThingMeaningless CPU with an AMD Radeon Tonga based GPU of some unknown spec for playing around with FreeBSD.

Dumpster dived recovered Silicon Graphics Octane with original SGI branded Sony monitor and SGI keyboard. Just to play with IRIX and revel in the Indigo Magic Desktop. Love me some isometric icons.

So I belong in all the forums. I will always dunk on Linux zealots who have a superiority complex especially when it comes to Apple and I will always think anyone who pays more in PC hardware than a PlayStation 5 just to game as a cosmically ignorant moron.

[AlanTuring69]

it seems more like Apple is technically incapable of innovating ARM since the ARM core in M4 is more or less the same shit was in M1. Keep this trend and switching back to x86 is going to be a very real option very soon LOL

BTW, what's the ISA level on M4? Is it 8.7 like on M3? The "most advanced chip" with 5 years old dated ISA and still no SVE2 LOL

M1/M2 is barely competitive with ZEN3 in efficiency (in MT, cpu based vactorized FP workloads) even with a full node advantage and expensive packaging techniques LOL

Not even N3P or N3X, only N3E. Well, at least not that N3B garbage in M3 LOL

lol apple M4 same old stuff as M1 wat a joke, arm innovation more like stagnation haha gotta throw the whole chip away an go back to x86 thats where its at, ancient isa on M4 cmon sve2 where u at, apple so behind, even zen3 beatin them with one arm tied lol, and that N3E nonsense, if u cant do better than dat go home jokers

[Jumbotron]

lol macbook for gaming thats just nuts man shouldve stuck with the good ol ibm stuff macs aint for games dont care bout ur tender age 60 or whatever emulation on mac pfttt waste of cash coulda got a console for that kinda dough ur talkin tryna school me on gaming with a mac ya sound like a cosmic joke no offence

I can recommend some remedial English courses for you if you wish along with grammar courses. Jus’ cuz I be tryna unnerstan ya’ yo.

[Dukenukemx]

So I belong in all the forums. I will always dunk on Linux zealots who have a superiority complex especially when it comes to Apple and I will always think anyone who pays more in PC hardware than a PlayStation 5 just to game as a cosmically ignorant moron.

Apple is against open standards and open source. Some of their software is just forked open source projects with Apple tuning, with no contributions from Apple towards said projects. Next to Nvidia, Apple is the worst. Also, keep in mind the Steam Deck is a PC that costs less than a PS5 and runs Linux. It can run as a desktop Linux PC, but also clearly plays games. In this day in age I can build a PC for the same cost as a PS5 that can play games better than a PS5 and it can still run LInux. I know what you're thinking, but that's not as advanced as your Macbook Pro M3. Wanna see what I can do with the budget of a Macbook Pro? Wanna know why it's called PCMasterRace and not AppleMasterRace?

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 5600X 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($119.00 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock B450M-HDV R4.0 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($44.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Patriot P300 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive ($57.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: ASRock Challenger D Radeon RX 6600 8 GB Video Card ($189.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 USB 3.0 MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($35.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Thermaltake Smart 500 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($39.06 @ Amazon)
Total: $547.00
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2024-05-08 17:36 EDT-0400

[Jumbotron]

it seems more like Apple is technically incapable of innovating ARM since the ARM core in M4 is more or less the same shit was in M1. Keep this trend and switching back to x86 is going to be a very real option very soon LOL

BTW, what's the ISA level on M4? Is it 8.7 like on M3? The "most advanced chip" with 5 years old dated ISA and still no SVE2 LOL

M1/M2 is barely competitive with ZEN3 in efficiency (in MT, cpu based vactorized FP workloads) even with a full node advantage and expensive packaging techniques LOL

Not even N3P or N3X, only N3E. Well, at least not that N3B garbage in M3 LOL

Please brother keep writing bullshit. With the internet being forever your ignorance will be displayed forever. I guess you haven’t t seen any of the actual die shots of the M1, M2 and M3 much less the M4 and much much less the Pro, Max and Ultra versions of M1, M2 and M3 ( well, of course there is no M3 Ultra for reasons ). I guess you missed the M3 GPU upgrade ….that seems to be a bit of a change from M1 particularly if you got off your lazy ass and took a look at the x-ray die shots.

Ohhh yeah…your ignorant snark about what ARM ISA that the M series are on ? You do understand that most of those dot upgrades from 8 are Apple innovations and that ARM ISA 9 is also tracking later 8 dot upgrades. In other words, most of what makes up ARM ISA 9 is later ISA 8 dot upgrades. In other other other words Apple has already been seeding ARM ISA 9.

I’m not even going to dignify a response to the whole not innovating on ARM bullshit other than to say….Where’s my more performant and more advanced Samsung Exynos based MacBook clone with an AMD Radeon GPU? Where’s my more performant and more advanced bog standard ARM based MacBook clone with a ARM Mali GPU? Where’s my more advanced and performant Nuvia based Qualcomm MacBook clone with an Adreno GPU ( which started out as Radeon tech ). Where’s my more advanced and performant Nvidia ARM based MacBook clone with an RTX GPU. Where’s my Microsoft Surface MacBook clone with ANY of the above more advanced and performant ARM solutions ?

Keep on brother. BTW….love that last bit about Apple being forced to return to Intel. LOL …..

[AlanTuring69]

it seems more like Apple is technically incapable of innovating ARM since the ARM core in M4 is more or less the same shit was in M1. Keep this trend and switching back to x86 is going to be a very real option very soon LOL

BTW, what's the ISA level on M4? Is it 8.7 like on M3? The "most advanced chip" with 5 years old dated ISA and still no SVE2 LOL

M1/M2 is barely competitive with ZEN3 in efficiency (in MT, cpu based vactorized FP workloads) even with a full node advantage and expensive packaging techniques LOL

Not even N3P or N3X, only N3E. Well, at least not that N3B garbage in M3 LOL

apple is just doin the same stuff over agin no innovation here ARM on M4 is like chewin the same gum u found under the desk from last week how boring LOL x86 might as well be their BFF soon enuf cuz this ship aint sailing nowhere fast. dont even get me started on their version of ARM's ISA the M4 still on 8.7 when everyone else talkin bout SVE2 apple living in 2019 called they want their tech back LOL. M1 and M2 tryin ta keep up with ZEN3 and can barely keep the lights on even when they throw all that fancy pants N3 silicon at it real advanced more like a swiss cheese full of holes LOL

[Dukenukemx]

Please brother keep writing bullshit. With the internet being forever your ignorance will be displayed forever. I guess you haven’t t seen any of the actual die shots of the M1, M2 and M3 much less the M4 and much much less the Pro, Max and Ultra versions of M1, M2 and M3 ( well, of course there is no M3 Ultra for reasons ). I guess you missed the M3 GPU upgrade ….that seems to be a bit of a change from M1 particularly if you got off your lazy ass and took a look at the x-ray die shots.

It's likely that Apple's GPU is a derivative of Imaginations PowerVR. The Asahi Linux team figured this out. You can also see that Apple still pays patents to Imagination over their PowerVR. Their GPU's aren't exactly catching up to Nvidia when their M3's got hardware accelerated mesh shading and Ray-Tracing, which are features Nvidia had in 2018, while AMD had these in 2020.

Ohhh yeah…your ignorant snark about what ARM ISA that the M series are on ? You do understand that most of those dot upgrades from 8 are Apple innovations and that ARM ISA 9 is also tracking later 8 dot upgrades. In other words, most of what makes up ARM ISA 9 is later ISA 8 dot upgrades. In other other other words Apple has already been seeding ARM ISA 9.

Apple doesn't support ARMv9 with SVE2. I don't think it supports SVE1. That means Apple doesn't have anything equivalent to AVX512 and therefore AMD's Zen4.

I’m not even going to dignify a response to the whole not innovating on ARM bullshit other than to say….Where’s my more performant and more advanced Samsung Exynos based MacBook clone with an AMD Radeon GPU? Where’s my more performant and more advanced bog standard ARM based MacBook clone with a ARM Mali GPU? Where’s my more advanced and performant Nuvia based Qualcomm MacBook clone with an Adreno GPU ( which started out as Radeon tech ). Where’s my more advanced and performant Nvidia ARM based MacBook clone with an RTX GPU. Where’s my Microsoft Surface MacBook clone with ANY of the above more advanced and performant ARM solutions ?

AMD already matched Apple with Dragon Range last year. There's a reason why Mac sales are low, and yes lower than the entire industry. Why you think Apple is sticking their M2's and now M4's into tablets? I can't see why the $3,500 Vision Pro has an M2 instead of an M3 other than Apple has too many of them. They can't sell these chips, and TSMC probably requires them to make a certain amount or otherwise lose their use of 3nm. So naturally Apple is putting M-series chips into devices where they have no business, like tablets. Especially with the iPadOS instead of MacOS. Dare I say Linux, but apparently nobody here who owns Apple devices actually use Linux as a daily driver.

Keep on brother. BTW….love that last bit about Apple being forced to return to Intel. LOL …..

You may not like it, but it will happen. When Apple released their M1's I said that Apple has a 3-4 generations of AMD and Intel before they catch up in power efficiency and battery performance. AMD did it with Dragon Range, and Intel is doing it with Meteor Lake. Meteor Lake which is technically inferior to Apple's M3 is selling so much that Intel can't keep up the demand. You can buy a Meteor Lake based laptop and do everything on it, plus play games. You can even run Linux on it, which is something people here don't seem to like to do. You get something like 5 hours of mild use on these laptops, compared to Apple's and AMD's several hours but that's plenty for most people. Meteor Lake is built on 7nm, while the GPU is on TSMC's 5nm. Eventually Intel will get their manufacturing to match TSMC and then eventually beat that of TSMC's. Don't hold your breath on anything better than 3nm from TSMC for a while. As it is Apple doesn't even support AV1 encoding, but AMD, Intel, and Nvidia do support AV1 encoding. As far as I know, the M4 doesn't have AV1 encoding. M4's don't have Wifi7 either, plus 2 external screens seems exclusive to the M3 Macbook Air. It must be costing Apple a fortune to develop chips that make up a small fraction of the laptop market, while also having a massive decline in Macbook sales. At some point it just makes sense for Apple to let someone else make chips for them. Don't be surprised if M-series chips end up in iPhones next.

[drakonas777]

Please brother keep writing bullshit. With the internet being forever your ignorance will be displayed forever. I guess you haven’t t seen any of the actual die shots of the M1, M2 and M3 much less the M4 and much much less the Pro, Max and Ultra versions of M1, M2 and M3 ( well, of course there is no M3 Ultra for reasons ). I guess you missed the M3 GPU upgrade ….that seems to be a bit of a change from M1 particularly if you got off your lazy ass and took a look at the x-ray die shots.

Ohhh yeah…your ignorant snark about what ARM ISA that the M series are on ? You do understand that most of those dot upgrades from 8 are Apple innovations and that ARM ISA 9 is also tracking later 8 dot upgrades. In other words, most of what makes up ARM ISA 9 is later ISA 8 dot upgrades. In other other other words Apple has already been seeding ARM ISA 9.

I’m not even going to dignify a response to the whole not innovating on ARM bullshit other than to say….Where’s my more performant and more advanced Samsung Exynos based MacBook clone with an AMD Radeon GPU? Where’s my more performant and more advanced bog standard ARM based MacBook clone with a ARM Mali GPU? Where’s my more advanced and performant Nuvia based Qualcomm MacBook clone with an Adreno GPU ( which started out as Radeon tech ). Where’s my more advanced and performant Nvidia ARM based MacBook clone with an RTX GPU. Where’s my Microsoft Surface MacBook clone with ANY of the above more advanced and performant ARM solutions ?

Keep on brother. BTW….love that last bit about Apple being forced to return to Intel. LOL …..

The single innovation Apple did with M was this: they took a mobile phone ARM core (because they were technically incapable/incompetent to develop a high performance desktop/server ARM core from scratch), added bunch of accelerators to workaround the fact the mobile phone core is weak ant not feature-rich, added a series of hacks to that garbage OS to offload certain things on them and ported "the solution" several times over the worst versions of TSMC N5 and N3 LOL I guess this happens without a Steve Jobs. Good enough and cost effective is the new Apple informal slogan LOL Entry line Pro Mac 8G RAM - same amount as in 20USD 15 years old used thinkpads LOL Cause you "don't need more" LOL USB2 in 2023 LOL Seriously, they should be taxed just for slowing computer tech progress. Chinese smartphone has more innovations in it than high end macbook LOL