AMD Announces The Radeon RX 7700 XT & RX 7800 XT Graphics Cards

[wertigon]

As an engineer you have no fucking clue how semicon business works. That can be easily inferred from your childishly arrogant, one-sided superficial opinion on how AMD should handle things.

Bridgman is an AMD engineer, I do not know if they are with the Ryzen or Radeon division but I would expect an AMD engineer know what they are talking about when showing how to get their products to do something.

But eh, what do I know I am just an Internet Nobody(tm) 🙂

[drakonas777]

Bridgman is at least familiar with how technical requirements were made and motivation behind certain decisions. Meanwhile Nobodies(tm) here are looking at things from their very narrow and very specific point of view and making conclusions based on this extremely limited context on how AMD makes decisions business wise.

[qarium]

Bridgman is at least familiar with how technical requirements were made and motivation behind certain decisions. Meanwhile Nobodies(tm) here are looking at things from their very narrow and very specific point of view and making conclusions based on this extremely limited context on how AMD makes decisions business wise.

AMD is a stock market company and is judged by the market there and you can easily see that the stock price of AMD shares is not as good as for example the Nvidia one.

and i think artivision is right AMD could do better. my last AMD product i did buy is a 4000€ AMD PRO W7900 so it is clearly not about save money at all costs.
the newest Xbox and playstation 5 is years old now but yet the technology like the GDDR6 ram did not yet hit the mainstream market.
means you can not buy a computer with similar APU tech.

why ? AMD can sell millions of playstation5 SOCs and can not sell some Personal Computers with similar tech ?

AMD has some big SOCs in the pipeline but for whatever reason still only DDR5 and not GDDR6

the only company who is truely all in in the big-SOC market is APPLE.

remember the time of the Vega20 chip-? the radeon7 does not have the full shader number the only full vega20 chips where sold with apple computers this has changed you can not buy AMD PRO W7900 with a apple workstation.

the only reason why they could avoid big SOCs is because they want to sell of their 6650XT/6500/6600/6400 if the SOC is to fast no one buys these cards anymore but to my knowlege all these cards are no longer in production and the SOL in the sale is near. and the 7600 is much faster compared to these cards.

If i where AMD i would even pull a 7900+7800X3D into a SOC system

i think the only reason why AMD is so shy in the SOC market is that apple is mostly incompatible with games and Intel GPUs are shit and Nvidia does not have a X86 cpu.

but this all could chance quickly X86 and also X86-64 and also SSE3 run out of patents Next year

this means Nvidia could do a X86-64 CPU because SSE2 is already patentfree and SSE3 is patentfree in short periot of time.

If Nvidia is smart they could do a X86-64 cpu with SSE3 and 2048bit SVE2. legacy apps could run on SSE3 and performance optimised apps could use SVE2 with full 2048bit.

[drakonas777]

For some reason you all fail to understand that nobody GIVES A FUCK about big APUs in x86 PC market.

[artivision]

For some reason you all fail to understand that nobody GIVES A FUCK about big APUs in x86 PC market.

Then I have 2 questions:

1) Why to help the competitor do more FPS with your 3D cache processor, when they already limited and they cannot go beyond 14K shaders performance barrier regardless of the their chip's size, for this cpu limited generation. This processor should only be inside your graphics.

2) Why they don't help their own graphics to get more free performance out of shared memory as proven with consoles. Is there a reason to sell underperformant parts when you are already behind?

3) Would you trust easily the type of management that failed before? Why you think that they must now something more than us? Usually the successful companies hear consumer opinions. Usually.

4) Who wouldn't want their products to be everywhere, even on TVs or Tablets? Do they have some grouch against other furniture?

[drakonas777]

Then I have 2 questions:

1) Why to help the competitor do more FPS with your 3D cache processor, when they already limited and they cannot go beyond 14K shaders performance barrier regardless of the their chip's size, for this cpu limited generation. This processor should only be inside your graphics.

2) Why they don't help their own graphics to get more free performance out of shared memory as proven with consoles. Is there a reason to sell underperformant parts when you are already behind?

3) Would you trust easily the type of management that failed before? Why you think that they must now something more than us? Usually the successful companies hear consumer opinions. Usually.

4) Who wouldn't want their products to be everywhere, even on TVs or Tablets? Do they have some grouch against other furniture?

1) Because in AMD's case vendor-locking-in X3D for APUs would most likely generate less absolute profit.

2) Because a general demand for big AMD APUs is not high enough to economically justify the cost of developing, maintaining and marketing such a product.

3) I am not aware of any failures made by the current AMD management, which evidently reduced expected economical performance.

4) AMD already has APUs suitable for TVs and Tablets.

That's 4 questions, BTW.

[artivision]

1) Because in AMD's case vendor-locking-in X3D for APUs would most likely generate less absolute profit.

2) Because a general demand for big AMD APUs is not high enough to economically justify the cost of developing, maintaining and marketing such a product.

3) I am not aware of any failures made by the current AMD management, which evidently reduced expected economical performance.

4) AMD already has APUs suitable for TVs and Tablets.

That's 4 questions, BTW.

You don't have to answer to everything especially if you don't know what you are talking about. Most of the world's companies go for affordable products and not for Apple like margins, they know something more (simple economics, i will not explain the high margins risks here). If there where strong Apus, everyone will bought them, especially if there where not stand alone commercial Amd Cpus and Gpus. Also the lithography stepping is wrong for their mobile products as their Apu memory channels, so they will not go anywhere at all. Amd gave ground to other companies to make Apus and even the SSE4 patents expire soon. So long Amd.

[drakonas777]

You don't have to answer to everything especially if you don't know what you are talking about. Most of the world's companies go for affordable products and not for Apple like margins, they know something more (simple economics, i will not explain the high margins risks here). If there where strong Apus, everyone will bought them, especially if there where not stand alone commercial Amd Cpus and Gpus. Also the lithography stepping is wrong for their mobile products as their Apu memory channels, so they will not go anywhere at all. Amd gave ground to other companies to make Apus and even the SSE4 patents expire soon. So long Amd.

That's a very naive take on the situation without being in line with how semicon business and PC market work and have been working historically.

[Myownfriend]

why ? AMD can sell millions of playstation5 SOCs and can not sell some Personal Computers with similar tech ?

AMD doesn't sell PS5s and XBSX/S's to consumers. They were commissioned by Sony and Microsoft respectively to make them. The reason that they sell is because of the total package that Sony and Microsoft offer in terms of their OSs, controllers, and game libraries. Their games will perform better on their hardware than they would for general PC hardware, too, because their software stack is all built to try to exploit everything about those SOCs.

AMD has some big SOCs in the pipeline but for whatever reason still only DDR5 and not GDDR6

DDR5 is the most current memory standard for desktop computers so there's no DDR6 for them to use. GDDR6 and 6X are for VRAM. They're high bandwidth but they're very high latency which means that CPU performance would take a pretty significant hit when they need to access it.

There's also the issue of GDDR6 DIMMs not being a thing.

[bridgman]

AMD doesn't sell PS5s and XBSX/S's to consumers. They were commissioned by Sony and Microsoft respectively to make them. The reason that they sell is because of the total package that Sony and Microsoft offer in terms of their OSs, controllers, and game libraries. Their games will perform better on their hardware than they would for general PC hardware, too, because their software stack is all built to try to exploit everything about those SOCs.



DDR5 is the most current memory standard for desktop computers so there's no DDR6 for them to use. GDDR6 and 6X are for VRAM. They're high bandwidth but they're very high latency which means that CPU performance would take a pretty significant hit when they need to access it.

There's also the issue of GDDR6 DIMMs not being a thing.

Right... we could make & sell a PC based on the same kind of architecture we use in game consoles (dedicated wide/fast memory) but it would mean that (a) we would need to sell a package with APU and memory, similar to what Apple did with M1/M2 and (b) someone (us or a partner) would need to make and sell a mobo with the APU/memory package soldered down.

Otherwise you would be looking at an EPYC-sized package in order to support all the high speed memory channels (EYPC has 512-bit memory bus like M2 Max).

I don't think a sufficient market would exist if the product was in a desktop form factor, and our mobile parts have been moving in that direction (use with wide fast soldered down memory plus as many CUs as that memory can support) for a while. There is still a big difference between the CU count that can be supported with 128-bit DDR5 and what you can support with 256-bit GDDR6 or 512-bit LPDDR5.

It's certainly do-able, but it would have to be designed as a complete product first with chip coming second, like we do with game console partners.