Unplugging Logitech USB Receivers Has Been Causing The Linux Kernel To Crash

[zexelon]

No moron. The same happens with windows as proven before, but some trash deleted my comments. While everyone knows windows is crap broken by design, it has the most dedicated trolls like the one above.

Lol!! x2.

[Vistaus]

I must disagree.

And I must disagree with you (I'm using Kagi, though):

(And clicking on ‘Meer resultaten’ = ‘More results’ doesn't show any more results, btw.)

[sophisticles]

Did anyone bother to read the diffstat on the patch? 1 deletion and 2 additions

Srsly Bro

When I read the entire Phoronix article and then looked at the patch to read the explanation by it's developer (and the explanation is much longer than the actual lines of code in the patch) I was struck by the question:

"Do the people that write this buggy code even bother to draw out and walk through functional block diagrams of the code design before they throw keystrokes at the wall to see what will stick/compile?"

I vaguely remember my college programming classes in C (we used Turbo C, instructor's choice) and Turbo Pascal (instructor's choice). All of those classes focused part of the classroom time on code design (logical block design & flowcharts, not pseudo-code) and some time on writing actual working code. The code writing process would walk through the design to develop a pseudo-code implementation, then actual working code would be written based on the pseudo-code. Yes, it was a tedious, but it was an iterative process that was intended to teach programmers to think through their code design; catch logic errors before they wrote bad code; and use a good compiler to help with bug catching.

In today's world I suspect that old school way of teaching programming would be considered LAME and those old paper manuals & code comments might be USELESS, but today's world also has the benefits of StackOverflow and AI to explain everything to them.

You and I were taught the same way, My first programming class was in 8th grade back in the 80's, some guy that had gone to my public school had made it big and decided to buy the school a bunch of Apple IIe computers, which were state of the art at the time. Then in high school i studied QBasic, FORTRAN, Pascal and COBOL and then about a decade later when i went to college for the first time, I took classes in C++ (Borland Turbo), Assembler, Data Structures and Algorithms, etc, and in all those classes we did have to flowchart our work, I assume students these days are still taught that way.

But in all fairness, that's really for instructional purposes, I don't think anyone does that when they are writing code for real.

I know when i am writing Python, PHP or JS, I mentally flowchart the code, and i include debug code so that i can see if there is a bug, where it triggers, but I don;t sit down with pen and paper and diagram everything.

[sophisticles]

In my junior class in programming (C#, because of course it is), no student (besides me) went for the higher grades and that's a problem. The fundamentals of understanding code and structure of codes, hell even building functional functions that you can reuse was not learned. It was literally spaghetti code. And the worse offense was the comments or documentation, code was just copy and pasted (because stackoverflow and AI) without even look at how it works.
The only upside is that the students at least admitted they just wanted to pass and never code again, it's just sad that students do not take in the lessons (of any course) in their lives, so much knowledge lost to the void just to get that pass grade (fundamentals can be applied other places in life, philosophy).

I think what you are deceiving is best explained by the fact that our education system is so atrocious with regards to making people take classes in subjects they have no interest in. When i first went to college i majored in Physics, then Computer Science. In both cases I didn't finish either degree because among other reasons I had to take classes that had nothing to do with my major, which wastes a lot of my time and money and i got fed up. Why do i need to take nearly half the credits for a Physics degree in subjects that have nothing to do with Physics? Same thing with the Comp Sci degree, close to 40% of the classes had nothing to do with computers. WTF?

When i went back nearly 2 decades later and finished a Biology degree and a Cyber Security degree, I found the same shit still taking place, the Bio degree required a bunch of liberal arts electives. Why? I would much rather replaced all those liberal arts electives with actual Biology or Chemistry classes.

[Jaxad0127]

And I must disagree with you (I'm using Kagi, though):

(snip)

(And clicking on ‘Meer resultaten’ = ‘More results’ doesn't show any more results, btw.)

Try removing the quotes. No end user is going to use that exact phrase.

Here's the first 9 results I get from DDG; 7 are BSOD from unplugging USB (10th result isn't, so I left it out). Oldest is from 2009 (superuser.com).

[sunami88]

Try removing the quotes. No end user is going to use that exact phrase.

You must be fun at parties

(that's the joke)

[jacob]

Windows can normally (i.e. in most cases) reload a crashing GPU driver, Linux just dies. What tautology are you talking about?

The tautology was that a kernel panic is a panic. On Windows a crashed GPU driver in most cases doesn't cause a panic. However other types of drivers can. That's all.

[jacob]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but afaiu the main difference between hybrid and monolithic kernels is in the way they're internally designed. Hybrid kernels have a layered design which comprises a basic kernel and the other kernel services on top of it, so that it more resembles a Microkernel OS design. Monolithic kernels aren't designed this way. However, when it comes to what runs in kernel space and user space, both hybrid and monolithic kernels aren't really different. At least that's how I understand it according to this wikipedia page. I mean, in some ways, Windows is even more monolithic because part of its GUI stack runs in kernel mode, while on Linux everything related to GUI runs in user mode.

The point that hybrid kernel can mean many different things. IIRC Linus even called it a vacuous marketing buzzword. What you refer to is one definition of hybrid kernel, and that's what DragonflyBSD uses (and also RedoxOS I believe, although I could be wrong on that one). Windows is not structured like that, and neither is Linux. For all intents and purposes I believe Linux and Windows are "monolithic" (whatever that means) in the same way, and it has nothing to do with the fact that on Windows many GPU driver crashes don't kill the entire OS. On the other hand, on Linux part of the graphics stack runs in kernel space too (the DRM portion of the driver).

[mos87]

Exactly correct, it is a bug in a relatively minor subsystem (as in not critical to the function of the kernel) that brings the whole kernel down. This only happens in a monolithic arch.

In the Windows hybrid arch the USB stack would fail but the system would remain online and re-init the stack.

I think ReactOS has a beter desktop chance than Linux atm.

Windows is NOT bug free... but very few bring the system down these days.

fef3x.jpg?a471336.jpg
bait harder.

[mos87]

The graphics driver is a specific case and yes, here Windows definitely handles it better than Linux.

Like how/in what cases?
In my experience, for quite some time now with amdgpu, it will bring Xorg down (mostly after hw video decoding hiccups it seems) while resetting the driver.