Free Software Foundation Certifies A $99 Mini VPN Router

[archkde]

This is an American company with no divisions currently operating in Europe. I don't know why some Europeans are so against choice in the marketplace. There is a warranty option for 2 and 3 years available on this and every other product in the catalog. You don't get different hardware by picking the 90-day option over the 2 or 3 year option either. The more important thing is that there are parts available for repairs and ThinkPenguin stocks parts for post-warranty repairs and offers repair services. The other important thing is that stuff isn't locked down like wifi cards such that you can't replace them or other components for that matter. If you expect an American company to provide a 2 year warranty on everything you should probably stop complaining that Americans are paying substantially less for the same goods. I understand wanting stuff that is going to last, but that's an option in the marketplace (excluding where IP is involved anyway as that can and does distort markets).

It does not matter whether this is an American company with no divisions in Europe. If you sell goods to European customers, you have to comply with relevant European laws. No matter what you say, you have to offer 2 years of warranty to your European customers. Refusing to repair your product after your "90 day warranty" has "expired" (in reality, it is a 2-year warranty because the law overrides the contract) is simply illegal. Offering a 2-year warranty as a paid service may get you in trouble as well.

[r_a_trip]

If you expect an American company to provide a 2 year warranty on everything you should probably stop complaining that Americans are paying substantially less for the same goods.

They are also getting substantially less for their money. With a paltry 90 day warranty the consumer bears all the risks for the hardware. Shoddy manufacturing? Congratulations, you just got had. "But... but... you can get an extended 2 year warranty!" So what just happened to paying substantially less than Europeans?

As a European, I don't have to think about it luckilly. You sell into the European common market, you are bound by a minimum 2 year warranty on consumer electronics, regardless of fantasy clauses in your shrinkwrap agreements. Note that it is a minimum 2 year warranty. If the laws of a member state provision for a longer term, you are bound by that.

Disclaimer: IANAL

[skeevy420]

It does not matter whether this is an American company with no divisions in Europe. If you sell goods to European customers, you have to comply with relevant European laws. No matter what you say, you have to offer 2 years of warranty to your European customers. Refusing to repair your product after your "90 day warranty" has "expired" (in reality, it is a 2-year warranty because the law overrides the contract) is simply illegal. Offering a 2-year warranty as a paid service may get you in trouble as well.

Sorry not sorry, if you're a European and go out of your way to import products from another country, continent, or hemisphere, don't be surprised when they don't follow and uphold your local rules and regulations. If you want something that follows European laws and standards then buy from a European company.

Also not sorry since they offer a way to make it European compliant in regards to their extended warranty package. Who'd have thunk it that there would be an increased cost when you require two years worth of potential labor and parts?

**ring ring**

"I'd like to speak to you about your router's extended warranty."

"ARGHHHHHHHHHHHH"

[skeevy420]

They are also getting substantially less for their money. With a paltry 90 day warranty the consumer bears all the risks for the hardware. Shoddy manufacturing? Congratulations, you just got had. "But... but... you can get an extended 2 year warranty!" So what just happened to paying substantially less than Europeans?

As a European, I don't have to think about it luckilly. You sell into the European common market, you are bound by a minimum 2 year warranty on consumer electronics, regardless of fantasy clauses in your shrinkwrap agreements. Note that it is a minimum 2 year warranty. If the laws of a member state provision for a longer term, you are bound by that.

Disclaimer: IANAL

Be glad you're not in America. Companies do some really, really shady shit in regards to warranties over here. For some great examples from my past week, I bought a Foodsaver, some bags for it, and a Mighty Mule gate remote. The Foodsaver comes with a 5 year warranty so Sam's Club tried to sell me a 1 year warranty plan. They also tried to sell me a 1 year warranty for the rolls of bags. Over at Tractor Supply, they tried to sell me a 1 year warranty on a remote that had a 1 year warranty.

They sell you warranties when the product has a factory warranty over here. It's fucked up.

[jaxa]

I'm all down for a fully open router, but this one is a hard pass from me.

They are also selling VPN services, which makes me highly suspicious. The technical idea of VPN is sound, the idea that you can trust a random company you know nothing about and cannot audit just because they said things you wanted to hear on a website is laughable at best. Plus they know exactly who you are because you bought it online with a debit/credit card. Some "privacy"...

Plus their model for sellng extras is almost an Apple level money grab, this is going to be a $300+ router most of the time, with a weak, outdated CPU.

At the very least, VPNs hide your real IP from websites and your activity from your ISP. Those are the parties likely to cause you the most problems.

Many VPN providers accept cryptocurrency which could slightly enhance your privacy (most cryptocurrency users are not truly anonymous). Mullvad accepts cash sent to them in the mail.

[thinkpenguin]

It does not matter whether this is an American company with no divisions in Europe. If you sell goods to European customers, you have to comply with relevant European laws. No matter what you say, you have to offer 2 years of warranty to your European customers. Refusing to repair your product after your "90 day warranty" has "expired" (in reality, it is a 2-year warranty because the law overrides the contract) is simply illegal. Offering a 2-year warranty as a paid service may get you in trouble as well.

Despite what it may seem neither the US nor Europe have worldwide jurisdiction and while some laws particularly ones where both sides are in agreement can be enforced that is not the case here. Without a European presence it is up to customs to reject the goods for failing to comply should Europe determine that exterior companies need comply.

[archkde]

Sorry not sorry, if you're a European and go out of your way to import products from another country, continent, or hemisphere, don't be surprised when they don't follow and uphold your local rules and regulations. If you want something that follows European laws and standards then buy from a European company.

If I actually bought something in the US and then privately shipped it to Europe, you would be correct. However, a company shipping to Europe does have to comply with European laws.

[archkde]

Despite what it may seem neither the US nor Europe have worldwide jurisdiction and while some laws particularly ones where both sides are in agreement can be enforced that is not the case here. Without a European presence it is up to customs to reject the goods for failing to comply should Europe determine that exterior companies need comply.

Worldwide jurisdiction (which indeed neither the US nor the EU have) is not needed here. If you ship to Europe, you're doing part of your business in Europe, and you have to comply with European law affecting your exports to Europe.

[thinkpenguin]

bottom of the barrel

Be glad you're not in America. Companies do some really, really shady shit in regards to warranties over here. For some great examples from my past week, I bought a Foodsaver, some bags for it, and a Mighty Mule gate remote. The Foodsaver comes with a 5 year warranty so Sam's Club tried to sell me a 1 year warranty plan. They also tried to sell me a 1 year warranty for the rolls of bags. Over at Tractor Supply, they tried to sell me a 1 year warranty on a remote that had a 1 year warranty.

They sell you warranties when the product has a factory warranty over here. It's fucked up.

You may or may not be understanding the store warranty as these differ greatly and can be confusing if you don't read the fine print (or even if you do). They are generally a profit center for the retailer though and retailers do need to make money somewhere else they go by-by. Some of these warranties only start after the manufacturers warranty ends. In other cases they are on top of the manufacturers warranty and eliminate the need to deal with the manufacturer. That may or may not be what you want and consumers getting the option instead of forcing a one-size-fits all approach isn't necessarily a bad thing. I certainly wouldn't push warranties on most folks on products that it doesn't make sense for. It can mean lower starting prices for goods in the marketplace and these options simultaneously solve a problem for those who lack the cash and those that have been bitten in the past by products that failed to live up to expectations. Fit for consumption is also not necessarily going to mean it's designed to work for a decade. You can have products that work as advertised, but are cheaper with a shorter life expectancy .

[Vistaus]

In what way is this a "brand new product"? I'm pretty certain ThinkPenguin doesn't manufacture anything. They just sell reconditioned or repurposed gadgets. They are like an eBay seller with their own web store. Getting a 90 day warranty from anyone reselling older devices is probably fantastic. And I'm pretty sure they sell to plenty of Europeans.

Exactly! And in most European countries, a 90 day warranty on refurbished products is 100% legal.