Originally posted by coder
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NVMe HDD Demoed At Open Compute Project Summit
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Originally posted by uxmkt View PostIn effect, home was always different from enterprise even before 2000; servers were a different architecture altogether (gross oversimplification, granted).
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Originally posted by sdack View PostWe did split them up for a good reason. Why else did you think we did this?
Fair questions, I suppose. I believe NVMe was initially devised as a way to attain higher speeds, as well as simplifying both the devices and the host's hardware. While HDDs don't require higher speeds than SATA 3.0 or 12 Gbps SAS, the benefits of simplifying the host + support for newer NVMe features without having to port them to SATA/SAS seem reason enough.
The reason it wasn't done sooner is that servers now have more PCIe lanes/capacity than before, PCIe switches are cheaper (I think), and the NVMe spec has had many years' worth of features added to it.
Originally posted by sdack View PostHDDs are separate physical devices with inherently long connections and the need for a separate power supply (5v/12v). SSDs do not have this requirement and as already discussed will move only closer to the CPUs in the future. SSDs present an opportunity to lower the power draw and for faster signaling over a dedicated bus. Why drag HDDs into this development?
- They don't specify power-off data retention. It's not going to be anywhere near 5 years, making this unsuitable for cold or nearline storage.
- Do you have any idea how much they cost? I do, because they conveniently posted up a price list! https://nimbusdata.com/products/exadrive/pricing/
What puzzles me most about your apparent position is that if HDDs didn't still have compelling advantages, why wouldn't the industry be in complete collapse? Obviously, it's not. Cloud and hyperscalers continue consuming HDDs at record pace. These guys aren't dumb.
Also, why do you belittle anyone who disagrees with you? If you think you have a good case, why can't you just put it forth and let it stand on its own?
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Originally posted by Ironmask View PostI watched a pretty interesting talk from an angry sysadmin that consumer PCs should not be servers. He had a couple good arguments but I think his best one was that consumer RAM tries to hide faults from you until it outright fails for seemingly no reason, whereas with more server-specific hardware it'll report even the most minor issue so it can be replaced ASAP. Not sure what that talk was named but I wish I could find it.
* It's a shame that laptops with ECC support seem exceedingly rare.
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Originally posted by sdack View PostThe added features for server memory technology then come with extra costs, and in order to cut costs and to offer affordable PCs do PCs simply lack these features.
Unfortunately, most consumer platforms don't support RDIMMs. To my knowledge, only Intel's workstation CPUs tend to offer both UDIMM and RDIMM support.
BTW, I once bought a RDIMM before I knew the difference. I was able to ebay it quite easily. I think Opterons required them, luckily for me.
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Originally posted by MadeUpName View PostSome people have needs for more high speed storage larger than what one or two NVMe on the mobo can deliver. Modern NVMe are in the 7GB speed range where as SATA3 is 600MB. If we get a better connector we can have spinning hard drives with large on board caches and larger fast SSDs than what the current NVMe form factor provides for.
So, if NVMe completely replaces SATA, I think there would be some real downsides to that. However, I can see your point that it enables bigger drives and HDDs with Optane/NAND cache.
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Originally posted by coder View Post... why can't you just put it forth and let it stand on its own?
Back to your other question, why the industry wouldn't be in complete collapse ... Who says that anything has to collapse other than in your wild imagination? Especially in the data storage segment does trust matter the most, and trust is not built in one day. So no, nothing is going to collapse here. However, SSDs are on the rise and present new technical challenges for which a new interface makes sense.
You then have not answered why HDDs needed to be on NVMe. If one can connect an HDD to NVMe was not the question. I am asking specifically about the necessity. I am sure that one can also connect BD-/DVD-/CD-/MO-/DAT-drives and the C64/VC20 Datsette to NVMe, but where is the necessity for it? And why abandon SATA/SAS? ... Or we could try to connect HDDs to the DDR5 interface and see if this makes HDDs any faster.
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Originally posted by Markopolo View PostI’m very confused by the people hating on the concept of NVMe HHDs like it somehow takes something away from other NVMe drives…
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Originally posted by sdack View PostI stop belittling you once you let the comments of others stand on their own. But as long as you quote comments piece by piece, pull them out of context to create meaningless tangents only to get your word in,
Originally posted by sdack View PostFrankly, you seem to have some inferiority complex when you do this, but I do not mean to judge.
Originally posted by sdack View PostYou then have not answered why HDDs needed to be on NVMe. If one can connect an HDD to NVMe was not the question. I am asking specifically about the necessity.
BTW, the NVMe spec is now so large they recently had to break it up.
Originally posted by sdack View PostOr we could try to connect HDDs to the DDR5 interface and see if this makes HDDs any faster.
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