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  • evil_core
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

    Here's one thing PS/2 offers that USB does not.
    From an operating system/kernel developer point of view, it is a thousand times easier to access and utilize the PS/2 device interface than the USB ones. Unlike USB, only a few writes to just TWO addresses are required to interface with a PS/2 keyboard and/or mouse.
    On the other hand, for USB you need to prepare a packet and send it through (possibly) layers of different ports and addresses before you can even interface with a keyboard or mouse.

    This is why during a kernel panic the kernel cannot flash the status lights on a USB keyboard, but is able to on a PS/2 keyboard.
    Many BIOSes provides "USB Legacy Support" (mouse/keyboard) option in BIOS or IDE/PATA mode (instead of AHCI) for legacy operating systems.

    Leave a comment:


  • tildearrow
    replied
    Originally posted by shopt View Post

    Yeah, better make sure I have a PATA drive so I'm not reliant on SATA. Make sure your mobo has legacy PCI too so you aren't reliant on PCIe. Make sure to keep an FDDI network handy in case they forget the ethernet drivers.

    Or IDK, just don't use an installer that's buggy. And get a cheap adapter so you aren't held hostage when spending $100+ on a mobo.

    On a more serious note, PS/2 works, it just offers nothing that USB doesn't and lacks things like hotplug support, readily available extension cables and hubs, is capped at around 1W making things like wireless or illuminated peripherals hard, can't be used for composite peripherals (like a combined kb/mouse), etc. They also consume more real estate on the mobo's IO panel. You may not *need* any of those things, but they are all useful to some people.
    Here's one thing PS/2 offers that USB does not.
    From an operating system/kernel developer point of view, it is a thousand times easier to access and utilize the PS/2 device interface than the USB ones. Unlike USB, only a few writes to just TWO addresses are required to interface with a PS/2 keyboard and/or mouse.
    On the other hand, for USB you need to prepare a packet and send it through (possibly) layers of different ports and addresses before you can even interface with a keyboard or mouse.

    This is why during a kernel panic the kernel cannot flash the status lights on a USB keyboard, but is able to on a PS/2 keyboard.

    Leave a comment:


  • shopt
    replied
    Originally posted by aht0 View Post
    It works and it isn't reliant on USB. And let's us use old keyboards. Saved my day too (actually I didn't notice the issue at the time but read about it in forums) once when Ubuntu had for whatever reason forgotten to include USB drivers into their installer iso.
    Basically, can't see why I definitely must use USB keyboards (tho I have bunch of those too). There's no "performance benefit" to be had. Currently got black/silver HP SDL4000, which is PS/2 and I am using it simply because I like how it feels under the fingers and how long-lasting it is. Other box has HP KUS0133 usb keyboard with smart card reader. They both basically last forever (border checkpoint here has both, they kept working through 10+ years 24/7/365 non-stop typing until plastic on buttons was worn through). I will not reach such wear level at home, so they might as well be eternal.
    Rest of the keyboards I have accumulated over time as parts of new rigs etc are just collecting dust in drawers.
    Yeah, better make sure I have a PATA drive so I'm not reliant on SATA. Make sure your mobo has legacy PCI too so you aren't reliant on PCIe. Make sure to keep an FDDI network handy in case they forget the ethernet drivers.

    Or IDK, just don't use an installer that's buggy. And get a cheap adapter so you aren't held hostage when spending $100+ on a mobo.

    On a more serious note, PS/2 works, it just offers nothing that USB doesn't and lacks things like hotplug support, readily available extension cables and hubs, is capped at around 1W making things like wireless or illuminated peripherals hard, can't be used for composite peripherals (like a combined kb/mouse), etc. They also consume more real estate on the mobo's IO panel. You may not *need* any of those things, but they are all useful to some people.

    Leave a comment:


  • aht0
    replied
    Originally posted by MadeUpName View Post
    OK I am curious. What possible use does PS/2 serve these days that isn't better served by USB other than wake on keyboard? I have to admit it surprises me every time I buy a mobo and it still has a PS/2 connector even if they have gotten down to one.
    It works and it isn't reliant on USB. And let's us use old keyboards. Saved my day too (actually I didn't notice the issue at the time but read about it in forums) once when Ubuntu had for whatever reason forgotten to include USB drivers into their installer iso.
    Basically, can't see why I definitely must use USB keyboards (tho I have bunch of those too). There's no "performance benefit" to be had. Currently got black/silver HP SDL4000, which is PS/2 and I am using it simply because I like how it feels under the fingers and how long-lasting it is. Other box has HP KUS0133 usb keyboard with smart card reader. They both basically last forever (border checkpoint here has both, they kept working through 10+ years 24/7/365 non-stop typing until plastic on buttons was worn through). I will not reach such wear level at home, so they might as well be eternal.
    Rest of the keyboards I have accumulated over time as parts of new rigs etc are just collecting dust in drawers.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by [TV] View Post
    I haven't used one and I don't know if these are still actually manufactured, but they are definitely still available: Transcend SSD370S
    I bought two of their PATA SSDs for my old Pentium M laptop, many years ago. For unrelated reasons, I stopped using that machine shortly thereafter.

    Leave a comment:


  • [TV]
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    As I said, you can no longer get MLC for consumer drives....
    I haven't used one and I don't know if these are still actually manufactured, but they are definitely still available: Transcend SSD370S

    I did manage to get some Transcend JetFlash 780 MLC USB3.0 32 GB flash drives for really cheap when a web store was getting rid of their stock a couple of years ago, and I'm still miffed that I only got two.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by evil_core View Post
    You can put both SSDs and HDDs in desktop
    What I do is use a separate fileserver, with HDDs in RAID-6, for backups and cold storage of bulk media that I don't use frequently. That way, I don't have the noise or idle power overhead of HDDs, when I don't need them.

    At work, we still use HDDs for most of our server-based storage. Whether its VM servers, build archives, our homedir fileserver, or the video surveillance system, HDDs provide sufficient reliability in a RAID, and the best GB/$. Most of our desktops/workstations contain only SSDs.

    Leave a comment:


  • evil_core
    replied
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    We're not proposing to use HDDs for desktops. I haven't done that in many years.

    I can't speak for evil_core , but all I'm saying is that HDDs still win in cloud, fileserver, and NAS use cases, where RAID is typically used and GB/$ or cold storage are priorities.
    Why?
    You can put both SSDs and HDDs in desktop

    Modern filesystems allows you to mix them:
    - ZFS allows to store metadata, small blocks and L2ARC on SDD, while regular data on HDDs
    - BCacheFS (WIP) is tiered filesystem, allowing making fancy read/write caching, moving data between tiers(according to usage or other criteria, etc)

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by evil_core View Post
    as I've said earlier, you can usually put HDD on the shelf for 30-40 years, and it still will probably works, and you will be able to read 100% of data.
    Uh... I 'm pretty sure no one else is saying that! HDDs are not an archival storage medium. The closest thing we've got to that is optical. TBH, I wouldn't trust a HDD to retain data, sitting on a shelf, longer than the warranty period.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    I recently removed two HDDs from a system, one being 3 years younger than the other and not holding much data. Yet did they fail with only a couple of months in between. No idea why the younger drive lasted as short as it did, but I sure do not feel happy because I can be ignorant and tell myself that it was merely bad luck or a "Monday morning"-drive or whatever. I prefer to use the knowledge on SSDs to my advantage,
    We're not proposing to use HDDs for desktops. I haven't done that in many years.

    I can't speak for evil_core , but all I'm saying is that HDDs still win in cloud, fileserver, and NAS use cases, where RAID is typically used and GB/$ or cold storage are priorities.

    Leave a comment:

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