GraalVM Updated For Java/JDK 21, Great Performance Results

[caligula]

Yeah, somehow desktop was never a priority for Java. After applets and Swing killed it on the desktop, we got JavaFX which was actually nice and introduced the separation between presentation and business logic which Swing didn't enforce. But of course, by then it was already too late.

I guess Swing was designed to compete with Unix and Win32 GUI toolkits. Sure it had a more modern style of programming. For example, usually no need to manage resources explicitly. The first generation of JavaFX appeared when so called rich web/internet applications became popular. Adobe Flash & Flex etc. JavaFX isn't all that bad, but it has plenty of design flaws (e.g. they're still opening some aspects of the APIs because the built-in components aren't that customizable). JavaFX is also quite heavy, but at the same time doesn't support any advanced 3d scenes with modern rendering options. I would have wanted to see an expressive truly cross-platform GUI library built in a pure high level language. It's kind of silly that all these Java GUI libraries offload stuff to GTK. Java is powerful enough for enabling things like a full GUI engine that would target Vulkan or some other efficient low-level API. That could have even helped with the laggy feel of the current GUI libraries. There are way too many abstraction layers involved.

Web frameworks are used for all sorts of stuff these days, but it doesn't mean they're efficient or productive to use. It's actually quite horrible how long it takes to "compile" even simple React apps. React builds its own abstraction on top of the DOM. It might launch a bit faster than Java/Swing, but uses tons of memory. Sites like cellmapper or miro also use quite a bit of CPU & GPU power. I really miss the technical superiority of the efficient native GUI toolkits from 1980s and early 1990s.

[nadirx]

And once again they pride themselves about AoT compile, despite:


https://www.graalvm.org/22.0/referen.../native-image/

Why are you looking at 22.0 ? 23.0 includes the native image tool https://medium.com/graalvm/a-new-gra...e-4aab483692f5

[stormcrow]

It's called business logic. You know, the whole reason applications exist in the first place...

"User requests are what computers are for," said Dumont. "Doing our business is what computers are for!" retorted Edward Dillinger.

Ed ended up in jail for fraud.

The truth is that computers are a tool for solving problems. It doesn't matter if it's business logic, scientific pursuits, or just helping my partner keep up with their various appointments. A calendar app is just as legitimate an application for Java as a highly complex port of a 50 year old business logic/accounting/inventory system originally written in COBOL on an IBM S/360. Java is a general purpose programming language, and it lends itself to generalized tasks. The details how it does those tasks are less important.

It's disingenuous, objectively wrong, and disrespectful to all those that have nurtured computer science and technology to claim the only reason for the advancement of computers, computer and electronics technology, and computing in general is to support businesses and their endless pursuit of greed. That's not what history teaches. Amateur and professional technicians, scientists both professional and casual, electronics and radio buffs, mathematicians and the merely curious all had a hand in making the computing industry what it is today both on the hardware side and the software side.

[bug77]

"User requests are what computers are for," said Dumont. "Doing our business is what computers are for!" retorted Edward Dillinger.

Ed ended up in jail for fraud.

The truth is that computers are a tool for solving problems. It doesn't matter if it's business logic, scientific pursuits, or just helping my partner keep up with their various appointments. A calendar app is just as legitimate an application for Java as a highly complex port of a 50 year old business logic/accounting/inventory system originally written in COBOL on an IBM S/360. Java is a general purpose programming language, and it lends itself to generalized tasks. The details how it does those tasks are less important.

It's disingenuous, objectively wrong, and disrespectful to all those that have nurtured computer science and technology to claim the only reason for the advancement of computers, computer and electronics technology, and computing in general is to support businesses and their endless pursuit of greed. That's not what history teaches. Amateur and professional technicians, scientists both professional and casual, electronics and radio buffs, mathematicians and the merely curious all had a hand in making the computing industry what it is today both on the hardware side and the software side.

Are you sure you understand what "business logic" means? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_logic

[Michael_S]

Web frameworks are used for all sorts of stuff these days, but it doesn't mean they're efficient or productive to use. It's actually quite horrible how long it takes to "compile" even simple React apps.

Some of the frameworks attempt to reject the maximalist options like React or Angular. I haven't looked recently, but I think Svelte.js is lightweight? I'm sure there are others.