Rust-Written Replacement To GNU Coreutils Progressing, Some Binaries Now Faster

[sdack]

Well, Rust does makes eliminating several classes of memory related issues/vulnerabilities more accessible. That´s its main selling point ...

You want to take a second look at this. Just because a C program can cause a segmentation fault or a bus error does not mean there is evil at play and so needs to be feared. You can catch these signals and handle them in your program. These signals are triggered by the OS, which is itself only executing its own code. These are not punishments like some want to believe, but these are help mechanisms. One can disable them and ignore them if wanted. Do you then think you could not do index-by-1 errors or just miscalculate indices in Rust?! Of course, you can. Chances are that with Rust you get no signs at all, your code runs seemingly without issues because it satisfied the more prohibitive demands by the compiler, but this does not make the code magically into correct code and you have no hint or clue as to where to start looking for the problem. Whereas with C/C++ will the operating system trigger a signal to inform you of the error and produce a core dump, which contains the entire program state at the time of the bug and is used with a debugger to analyse the bug.

Rust is like a wooden sword you give to a child. We use C/C++ not because it prohibits us to do the things we want, but because it allows us to do more and even things that are seemingly unsafe. Seemingly, because there really are many ways to make computer systems safe and it does not first require a new prohibitive and overbearing language. Even if there was more risk to it would we still continue to use C/C++. It is why we invented the steam and combustion engine, why we flew to the Moon, and why we run 240V lines through our homes, not because it is safe, but because it brings progress.

[wswartzendruber]

No, they ABSOLUTLEY can ship a GPL program as part of a proprietary suite, alongside other programs with which they don't share source. The language in the GPL talks about code linking during compilation or as dynamically loaded libraries. Outside of that it doesn't apply. The alternative would be insanity because putting unrelated programs together into a distro or anything else (even a zip file to a friend) would constitute a breach.

Just because you would LIKE for it to be otherwise (forcing microsoft to either go completely GPL or stay away entirely) doesn't change the legality of the situation.

Perhaps you would care to assess the Windows EULA? Section 2.c is full of interesting things that contradict GPL section...

...you know what....forget it.

[Developer12]

They could absolutely ship a GPL program by itself. But they don't get to ship a GPL program as a part of a proprietary suite.

This is precisely why Apple doesn't ship BASH with macOS and they use KSH instead.

No, they ABSOLUTLEY can ship a GPL program as part of a proprietary suite, alongside other programs with which they don't share source. The language in the GPL talks about code linking during compilation or as dynamically loaded libraries. Outside of that it doesn't apply. The alternative would be insanity because putting unrelated programs together into a distro or anything else (even a zip file to a friend) would constitute a breach.

Just because you would LIKE for it to be otherwise (forcing microsoft to either go completely GPL or stay away entirely) doesn't change the legality of the situation.

[mmstick]

But Rust is not going anywhere. It is dead on arrival and will not even be a footnote compared to other languages.

"Old Man Yells at Rust"

Oh no!

Anyway...

[darkonix]

God, what a whiner you are. "if people like you had your way" Just no... All you are showing us is how much you base your argument on your belief rather than on experience. You still just blame the tool for the mistakes of the users. Nor can you think for yourself.

C gets used by so many including uneducated people that mistakes are unavoidable. Rust gets used right now mostly by people who could likely write secure code in many languages, meaning, they are skilled. They choose Rust out of political reasons, but not because of an actual need for it. Anyone who can explain why Rust would be better than C cannot simultaneously claim not to be able to write secure code. And most people who write here in favour of Rust belong to this category of people. Rust will never reach the level of accessibility of C. Java, JavaScript, PHP, Python, and even Lua have found their niches because these make certain areas more accessible. Rust does not make anything more accessible, it makes it at best more complicated, and as long as there are more accessible languages will users pick those before they pick Rust. You want to make comparisons to medicine?! Rust is DOA - Dead On Arrival. There is a term from medicine for you.

Well, Rust does makes eliminating several classes of memory related issues/vulnerabilities more accessible. That´s its main selling point but obviously as a more modern language than C it adds several improvements that are never going to be addressed by C. I don't believe its adoption is just politics. A lot of people are looking at it and seems to be over critical mass now. I could be wrong, time will tell. No one is saying to rewrite everything in it, but some people like to rewrite old software with more modern tools. Nothing wrong with it.

[sdack]

Interesting. You fundamentally do not understand C. Nor do you understand Rust.

Oh, but you are wrong. I do understand you quite well. What makes you believe you knew better is your fear. Fortran and Cobol were used in a time when most people had no computer and no access to one. And these languages are still around. And while operating systems and makers fought for dominance did one thing unite them all - C. Now C/C++ is about everywhere and it will be here for a very long time. It will be around longer than anyone wants it to be. But Rust is not going anywhere. It is dead on arrival and will not even be a footnote compared to other languages. You will never be a good programmer when you fear C/C++. There are far too many good programmers on the market who can do your job without needing Rust. People will look at you and only see a coward afraid of his own mistakes, who needs a helping hand at every turn. You want to be that guy? Fine by me.

[wswartzendruber]

Interesting. You fundamentally do not understand C. Nor do you understand Rust.

[sdack]

Safe (default) Rust is superior for stability because it prohibits direct memory access.

I will sooner believe Rust to cause autism. Just because you do not allow one particular feature does not mean users could not create instability. There are near-infinite possibilities to create instability without using pointers. People will always go for languages with direct memory access when they need performance, just for the sake of creating zero-copy solutions. And Rust programmers will always try to compare their code to C, because they know they have given up something of value. Those who do not need fast code will continue to choose interpreter languages with simple syntax and loose data types because it allows for faster developments. Rust then does not offer anything of significance when all it offers is prohibition. This may indeed be of value for people on the autism spectrum, but most people rather have plenty of features and not need them, than need features and not have them.

[wswartzendruber]

God, what a whiner you are. "if people like you had your way" Just no... All you are showing us is how much you base your argument on your belief rather than on experience. You still just blame the tool for the mistakes of the users. Nor can you think for yourself.

C gets used by so many including uneducated people that mistakes are unavoidable. Rust gets used right now mostly by people who could likely write secure code in many languages, meaning, they are skilled. They choose Rust out of political reasons, but not because of an actual need for it. Anyone who can explain why Rust would be better than C cannot simultaneously claim not to be able to write secure code. And most people who write here in favour of Rust belong to this category of people. Rust will never reach the level of accessibility of C. Java, JavaScript, PHP, Python, and even Lua have found their niches because these make certain areas more accessible. Rust does not make anything more accessible, it makes it at best more complicated, and as long as there are more accessible languages will users pick those before they pick Rust. You want to make comparisons to medicine?! Rust is DOA - Dead On Arrival. There is a term from medicine for you.

Safe (default) Rust is superior for stability because it prohibits direct memory access.

That was easy.

[sdack]

bla bla bla ...

If people like you had your way, medicine would still consist of bloodletting and believe me, bloodletting cost more lives than it saved.

God, what a whiner you are. "if people like you had your way" Just no... All you are showing us is how much you base your argument on your belief rather than on experience. You still just blame the tool for the mistakes of the users. Nor can you think for yourself.

C gets used by so many including uneducated people that mistakes are unavoidable. Rust gets used right now mostly by people who could likely write secure code in many languages, meaning, they are skilled. They choose Rust out of political reasons, but not because of an actual need for it. Anyone who can explain why Rust would be better than C cannot simultaneously claim not to be able to write secure code. And most people who write here in favour of Rust belong to this category of people. Rust will never reach the level of accessibility of C. Java, JavaScript, PHP, Python, and even Lua have found their niches because these make certain areas more accessible. Rust does not make anything more accessible, it makes it at best more complicated, and as long as there are more accessible languages will users pick those before they pick Rust. You want to make comparisons to medicine?! Rust is DOA - Dead On Arrival. There is a term from medicine for you.