Ubuntu Touch Has Many Plans For Ubuntu 14.04 LTS

[Pajn]

I've never heard of the University of Reading. Am I supposed to be impressed with their opinion?

ranked in the top 1% of universities in the world by THE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Reading

Seems to be pretty good.

[dee.]

Oh, there's categorization now. The thing with the Dash is that it IS new and different, because if they followed what Linux Mint has been doing for years.. well Mint wouldn't have to exist at all, Ubuntu would still be "innovating" the stupid start menu.

Again, just because something is "new and different" doesn't make it inherently better.

I don't know how the dash works in the latest versions, but back in the LTS when I tried it, the only categorization was the part where it's "all your programs" and "all your files", or just "everything", and if you want to divide that in categories you have to open up filters and filter by application type which is much more inconvenient than just dividing it all to those categories from the start. If that's changed, and they've implemented proper categorization, then good for them, it just shows that it's not always good to change things for the sake of change, and sometimes things are done the way they are done for a long time because it's a way that simply works best. Dividing applications to categories is one of those things.

So what you're saying is that nobody has patience for a brand new desktop and there are some original things about Unity, such as its disappearing menubar when you fullscreen a window. What could possibly be heavier than playing video games? Development? Well in the case of resource hogging, I will give you that, since Compiz is something that really should just die as it has no real purpose.

I'll hand it to you, the menubar that melds in with the window titlebar is a nice feature (actually though, it's just a hack that makes the window titlebar-less when maximized). It's something I'd love to see in Cinnamon. But in the grand scale, it's a pretty small feature, not something that makes or breaks a desktop.

I don't mean heavy in terms of cpu/gpu resources. I meant heavy in terms of usage patterns. A casual computer user, who just browses the web, plays some games, maybe edits some documents now and then, doesn't really care all that much if the interface is ergonomical or not. It's only when you start doing some actual productive stuff on the computer, ie. becoming a heavy user, like programming, web design, graphic design, audio/video editing, etc. that it becomes important to have an interface that suits your workflow. Unity doesn't really scale up well from casual use, you'll start to notice the limitations of it pretty soon.

The problem with those menus on Linux Mint and KDE is that while they're good for the desktop, they won't ever become useful on tablets/touchscreens.

That's not a problem at all. That's a feature. The whole idea that you could use the same interfaces in wildly different form factors is quite frankly moronic, it's that exact same reason why windows 8 is failing.

The fact that Cinnamon doesn't have to care about touchscreens or tablets is exactly the reason they're able to produce such a great desktop interface. They focus 100% on the desktop, and don't go on chasing touchscreen trends.

There's a massive change going on in the world, where enthusiasts' desktops are the only desktops to remain within the mainstream media/consumers, businesses, schools, etc are going to choose more lightweight and power saving hardware. Thus, switch over to something like say, Windows 8 or iOS or Android. Desktops will become obsolete and will only be used for ultra high power stuff, which is either already used by Apple or Microsoft (not including servers). Windows Vista/7's were improvements, but it's not going out very well at the moment.

Bullshit. That's just marketing hype. Windows 8 is failing miserably, it has a horrible interface because it tries to be everything at once, which just results it in not doing any one thing well. What's the UNIX philosophy again? Do one thing, and do it well. It still applies to a lot of things even today.

Sure, touchscreen devices, mobile devices and tablets and such, they probably will take some of the market from desktop computers. They'll be used by people who don't really need a computer, they just need something they'll be able to use to "surf the web", or watch videos, or twit around on facespace or whatever. Desktop and laptop computers will still be used for any foreseeable future, because of the simple fact that a) a keyboard + mouse combination is much more ergonomic than any touch interface and b) touchscreen interfaces do not scale up well at all: as soon as your screen size grows much higher than about 12", touchscreens start to suck horribly.

We'll be likely to see much more desktop-replacement laptops, and very small form factor desktop computers, such as those Compulab thingies. Desktops/laptops don't stop evolving. "High-performance" tablets are just going to go full circle and end up as sort of laptops with optional touch functionality built in. You can already see this development in these so-called "hybrid" tablets.

We don't know for sure where exactly technology goes next, or how it evolves, but one thing is for sure - we're not going to do demanding tasks on a tiny screen, we're not going to do web design, programming or graphic design on 10" tablets, and we're certainly not going to write 20-page documents on an onscreen keyboard.

Sadly that's not how the world works, but according to Linux users, that's how things are or at least should be, right down to their freakin' desktops. The desktop is dying, Microsoft knows this, and guess what? People are tolerating Windows 8 and people WILL STILL be going to MS, so until you get something out that spouts out "innovation" to the mainstream, you're not going to get far within the Linux desktop/mobile hybrid. Ubuntu is that key and still is, even though Windows 8 exists, you HAVE to tell it to the mainstream as it is, "It's a new interface, easier to use, etc."

Desktop is far from dying. I think you buy too much into marketing hype instead of what is really happening. The thing is, on the desktop/laptop market, being innovative or superior doesn't really matter. If it did, Linux would have overtaken Windows a long time ago.

People are going to MS because, get this: when the average joe goes to buy a computer, he goes to the electronics store in the nearby mall, and what he sees is 100% Windows computers. Not even a single Ubuntu around. Maybe some Chromebooks, but those have their own set of flaws. Sadly, MS doesn't even need to push a quality product. As you can see, they can easily squeeze out a half-baked turd like windows 8, and call it an OS, and people simply have to buy it because there are no alternatives (that they know of: sure, people may have heard of this thing called "Linux" or "Ubuntu", but they won't see it in their local electronics store, so they won't care).

All the interface changes and innovations Ubuntu or any other Linux distro does are not going to matter, they are not going to gain mainstream popularity, as long as the #1 problem exists: there is no real retail presence. Consumers won't buy what consumers don't see.

The #2 problem is software. There's still tons of software only available for Windows. Granted, that's less of a problem these days, thanks to constantly increasing amount of good quality open source software, and even some proprietary Linux software. But there are still tons of people who simply have to use Windows because of that one or two software that they absolutely need, and can't run on any other platform.

Canonical is not going to be able to fix problem #1, no matter what they do. They simply don't have the necessary resources to do so, not on any meaningful scale. The best hope I can see for fixing problem #1 is Tizen: if Intel (or Samsung, or any of their partners) manages to bring out the Tizen ultrabook, they have the necessary clout to be able to get their product to the reach of the average joe, right next to the windows 8 laptops in the electronics stores at the malls and supermarkets.

As for problem #2, it's solution is mostly dependent on the fixing of problem #1.

[Siekacz]

You sound like you never tried anything but the "big" DEs, but there are much more options. That I don't use Unity does not mean that I have to use something that resembles the older desktop metaphor. In fact, I don't use desktop icons (or other of those things I think you mean with "MS-like clutter" for years (they simply don't make sense)
Maybe try some of the not so common options, you will find that in reality Unity is not unique. Any of the simple WMs will get out of your way, even more so than Unity. And many of them just make more sense on the desktop, just because they are aimed at the desktop and not meant as a one-size-fits-all mobile/desktop hybrid.

"Little" WMs have a lot of goodies that I would see in mainstream DEs, but they also lack a lot (search, HUD, indicators - Canonicals idea to ditch tray is one of the best design decisions, tray is a unpredictable mess, inherited from Windows). Unity removes all "big DE" clutter, but still is easily accesible and has these innovative things (HUD, dash, not-wasting-space). That's certainly unique.

[Siekacz]

Customization is not a must. If they can provide consistent, efficient, beautiful UI experience (and they certainly do!), I don't care at all. Customization is just a way to correct developer's design mistakes. Normal people and developers love Unity because of it's simplicity, they just sit quiet. The "unity-sucks!!!ONE" rant is just a deperate scream of some nerdy guys who just feel thet they loosing field of their superiority over others. Make Linux simple, make Linux easy, make Linux accessible and beautiful - they will start FUDing everyone that this is against "the spirit of free software".

[Aleve Sicofante]

Again, just because something is "new and different" doesn't make it inherently better.

I don't know how the dash works in the latest versions, but back in the LTS when I tried it, the only categorization was the part where it's "all your programs" and "all your files", or just "everything", and if you want to divide that in categories you have to open up filters and filter by application type which is much more inconvenient than just dividing it all to those categories from the start.

There are good reasons against categorization. Too many applications belong to different categories, for starters.

I haven't used those filters in the Dash ever. I thought I'd miss categories and was against its removal at the beginning. But opening the dash with the Super key and typing a few letters of a word related to what I want brings me the right app to the beginning of the list in seconds. Most of the time, I don't need to type at all, since I use a few apps throughout the day, and they're just there, along the most recent documents opened. This is so much faster than navigating menus that every time I have to deal with a start menu (in Windows machines, for instance) I find it old and clumsy.

Categorization in the Dash serves the purpose of having a look at what's installed. You'll take that look once or twice after a new installation, then never use it again.

The way the Dash is evolving is about making fuzzy searches available, or in other words, make it more clever. I don't think there'll be much in the way of categorization in the future. It simply is not the way it's designed and used (once you get how fast it is to search instead of picking apps from a menu you never look back). You should try using the Dash as it was designed, not as you would use older paradigms. Maybe you can't stand it anyway, in which case you should stay with the older paradigms. Whatever you decide, you can't expect every DE to work the same. The Dash is pretty much unique nowadays and many people like myself find it the absolute best way of dealing with apps, documents and general search (although I keep online searches off for now).

[akincer]

I hated Unity when I first tried it. I remember thinking how awful it was. Once I got over the initial "what in the hell is this thing" experience, I settled into some sense of normalcy. Then bugs started annoying me more and more and my displeasure returned. Then all the ones that kept plaguing me got fixed and I started finding more annoying work flow things. Those turned out to be new keyboard shortcuts I didn't know. Now, I find going back to standard interfaces awkward and cumbersome. Just my personal experience and preference.

I guess I understand on some level why there's some that have such a visceral reaction to Mir. Personally, I don't care as long as the end result is a good product. That's just MY take. Competition is often good. I don't think there's any reason why Wayland can't have some. Just my $0.02US.

I will say there ARE things about Ubuntu that annoy me very deeply still. Some of it seems to be due to energies directed to the Mir/Unity/convergence strategy and less on QA on the edges. I mean, there's an annoying bug when I put in a blank CD or DVD that's been around for going on four Ubuntu iterations now. There are other problems that actually aren't Canonical's fault and I'm sure would probably exist on other modern distros due to being upstream and outside the scope of a distro's ability to fix it (GPU driver issues). Some I just don't know. I mean, when I run into machines with older nVIDIA cards, I can't install anymore. Sometimes the installer loads, sometimes it doesn't. It NEVER allows me to complete an install.

At any rate -- AFAIK, Canonical is the only one pursuing convergence. This is what I as a consumer want -- a cell phone that will serve as my desktop when plugged into a monitor. I'm saving up money now for if and when Canonical gets a working device out there. Maybe they'll do another Edge campaign.

[prodigy_]

a cell phone that will serve as my desktop when plugged into a monitor.

If a good desktop could be the size of a smartphone, it would be. But it's your right to keep on dreaming.

[akincer]

good desktop

I never said this. I said "desktop" not "good desktop". For things more than basic desktop functions, I've got another rig that will be able to be fit into the form factor of a cell phone after we start drawing circuits a single atom at a time. Maybe not even then.

[Aleve Sicofante]

If a good desktop could be the size of a smartphone, it would be. But it's your right to keep on dreaming.

Oh boy... Antiubuntism can go really far sometimes.

An Atom makes a good desktop? Or is it a 4-way Xeon system?

A good desktop is the one that's good enough for the tasks you do everyday with it. There are quite a number of smarphones already out there that would make good desktops if fed with the right OS. That's what Ubuntu's convergence is about and there's really not too much to dream about. The hardware is there. The software is almost there.

[akincer]

For most people, the latest and greatest cell phones on the horizon have the necessary hardware to fulfill the vast majority if not all of their daily computing tasks. I mean, we're talking phones with 4GB of RAM (or more), 8 or more core 64bit CPUs and integrated GPUs. You're probably not going to mine bitcoins with them or get a steady 120 FPS on any FPS game released in the last 5 or 10 years, but you WILL be able to use office software, watch videos, surf the internet (i.e. Twitter, Facebook, etc.), connect to VPNs, do basic photo editing, load music onto your music player (maybe not some Apple devices), software development, etc.

So outside of heavy gaming and other intense tasks, they will be just fine. The generation after the next will be even better.