KDE Vivaldi Tablet Finally Shipping For QA Testing

[Redi44]

GM is no science fact., it's a political agenda created from Club of Rome.

?The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself." - Club of Rome 1993, 'The First Global Revolution'

Oh my god, this is awesome! I can use this GIF twice today!



Also, please give everyone a break with the trolling. Go get some job (I know that this can be hard for a 13y old kid, but ask your parents, maybe do the dishes or something) and then buy a trip to your nearest glacier. Also, take some old pictures of the glacier before you go. I can guarantee that even you will notice the differences...

[TheBlackCat]

Personally I want Mir chosen as I'm yet to see any 'WOW' from Wayland. It's more like a XOrg rewrite.

Are you kidding? Wayland is absolutely nothing like X.org. Mir is much closer to X.org than Wayland since Mir still acts as a display server like X, the very thing we have been trying to get away from.

Besides the developers, please explain in which ways Wayland is more like X.org than Mir.

[dee.]

I was generalising on the direction of distributions and what's considered progressive and not. It's not news that PulseAudio has the same hatred from those in the 'cave' as Mir vs Wayland.

Who are in a "cave"? If you can't make your point without childish rhetoric, you don't stand on very firm ground. The very reason PA got a bad rep was because Canonical stupidly released it with an unfinished beta version that had all kinds of problems, and, well, it's all history now... As for now, PA is inadequate for certain tasks - like if you want to use any audio software, for composing/editing music, and such, the latency in PA is simply unacceptable and you'll have to use JACK or plain ALSA instead.

PA is fine as long as you only need to do trivial things like watch videos, or listen to music, or such, where latency doesn't matter very much. When you need low latency, it's absolutely useless.

The fact is Wayland was endless Youtube demos of people showing flowers and shapes spin or colour changes. It took Mir's announcement months ago to get Wayland kicked into action and now we see progress.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

(Look it up in Wikipedia! Make it like a fun game of learning!)

The fact is that Wayland has been in steady development for years, doing the groundwork for a modern display server. Just last year, it was 90% finished, and that's when Mir decided to jump off and take advantage of all that work. It's a good strategy, in a sense: hitch a ride until you're near the finish line, then jump off and sprint. At that point, Mir was announced, and then Wayland walked the extra bit to be complete, announced a stable protocol API, and things started progressing from there. It's not a coincidence, Mir just took advantage of all the hard work that looks slow to the observers, because of the lack of flashy demos, then jumped in right at the moment when the ride gets interesting. Of course it looks like the development gets faster in the end, because all the hard, slow, uninteresting bits are already done. The difference is, Wayland did those bits themselves, Mir just took advantage.

Others criticised Mir for its choice to use Android drivers, now we see Wayland users scramble to use libhybris even though Sailfish team instigated the basic form of the library and its connection to Wayland.

That doesn't even make sense. Weasel words (who are these others? which Wayland users "scramble"?), and it doesn't change the fact that Wayland can use Android drivers just as well as Mir, so the ability to use them is not an advantage that is unique to Mir. So that's not a good reason why Mir was needed. Jolla is using Wayland in their first phone, set to launch at the end of the year, and it will use Wayland, probably on Android drivers.

Obviously but why then did Monk get upset when his own team forked MeeGo, they use QT, Alien Dalvik, Wayland, etc. Then we had countless Wayland fanboys screaming blue murder that Canonical was shafting the scene.

It's because Canonical's decision affects others and is harmful to the entire community. But you don't have to listen to me, take it from Past Mark Shuttleworth, vintage of 2010:

We considered and spoke with several proprietary options, on the basis that they might be persuaded to open source their work for a new push, and we evaluated the cost of building a new display manager, informed by the lessons learned in Wayland. We came to the conclusion that any such effort would only create a hard split in the world which wasn?t worth the cost of having done it.

http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551

So that's the thing: having two competing display systems is harmful. Without Mir, the path would be clear: every distro could move on to Wayland, and legacy X software would still work via rootless application-specific X servers thanks to XWayland. All would be nice and simple. Anyone coming to bring their software to Linux would have it simple - develop it for Wayland, end of story. With Mir, everything just gets messy. Look at all the trouble it causes, for no benefit whatsoever.

Well now we can only hope the proprietary driver makers (Nvidia/AMD) pick the best display manager, else Wayland or Mir will be playing catchup. Personally I want Mir chosen as I'm yet to see any 'WOW' from Wayland. It's more like a XOrg rewrite. If the guy behind Wayland has his mission complete then it may be respectable, regarding speed and anti-screen tear.

You don't even know what you're talking about. It isn't about who has the flashiest demos on youtube, who has the most "wow". It's about technical merits, which is the best, most stable, most compatible display system. But it figures, because that's all Canonical basically is: they do PR and marketing stunts. They lie to people. And people buy it because their OS is named "ubuntu" and that means, like, peace and stuff, man, in africanese, so you know they got to be legit, right? Pass on that joint, man.

Wayland is also far from a XOrg rewrite. If anything, Mir is closer to the structure of XOrg than Wayland. Mir is a server, like XOrg. Wayland is a protocol, that defines a way to build compositors, which can but don't have to be servers. Canonical could have built their own Wayland compositor, and have all the features they need, ones they want to do with Mir. Server side allocations, Android drivers, all of it. But they instead went the idiotic route of creating their own, incompatible system that no one else is going to use, ever, because no one else can use it. Because it's not useful to anyone else than Canonical, for reasons I already explained. So everyone else is going to use Wayland, and Canonical does their in-house thing because they decided to take a huge shit on the community.

[erendorn]

What was that? I couldn't hear you over the sound of you not being able to look it up or extrapolate technical progress over the last 7 years.

The GPU has since been renamed the Mali T-678, it's basically around as powerful as the PS3's GPU, but with modern features like OpenGL4 and OpenCL.

http://www.knowyourmobile.com/products/15168/arm-mali-t658-gpu-will-bring-playstation-3-graphics-mobile

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5077/arms-malit658-gpu-in-2013-up-to-10x-faster-than-mali400

http://www.overclock.net/t/1164389/the-new-ps3-rival-arms-mali-t658-mobile-gpu

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/and...18-months.html

Not sure "number of polygons" per second is the end all be all metric to compare GPUs.. what about shaders for example?
To me it seems that PS3 games are still visually more impressive than mobile games, but then, I don't play on mobile (or console).

[dee.]

You didn't fathom my perspective.

Because you have none. "Convergence" is a buzzword, tell me what benefit do you expect to get from having the same interface in both a 5" phone and a 22" desktop, and why every mobile OS maker should seek to emulate that? It's a stupid idea, microsoft already tried it and look how far it got them, all of a 4% market share...

So my hunch was correct that you had no integrity, the reason my you have been arguing the trivial.

GM is no science fact., it's a political agenda created from Club of Rome.

“The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself." - Club of Rome 1993, 'The First Global Revolution'

Oh right, it's a conspiracy, and the NWO probably has their hands in it, and the Freemasons, and the number of the beast shows that Obama is the antichrist and the moon landing was fake. Gotcha.

Probably all of the scientific evidence of climate change all around the world is faked, too? You know, it no longer surprises me that you lack critical thinking skills enough to believe whatever Shuttleworth tells you. After all, if you're used to getting your "facts" from "websites" written in comic sans, well, that explains it all, really. Have fun with http://timecube.com/

[Kivada]

top end ARM devices GPUs have an theorethical raw output close to the one present in the PS3 <-- Huge difference

and even so ARM SoC have very narrow bandwith so any tiny mistake can starve the pipeline way before even reach half of that theoretical raw power of the GPU

What was that? I couldn't hear you over the sound of you not being able to look it up or extrapolate technical progress over the last 7 years.

The GPU has since been renamed the Mali T-678, it's basically around as powerful as the PS3's GPU, but with modern features like OpenGL4 and OpenCL.

http://www.knowyourmobile.com/products/15168/arm-mali-t658-gpu-will-bring-playstation-3-graphics-mobile

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5077/arms-malit658-gpu-in-2013-up-to-10x-faster-than-mali400

http://www.overclock.net/t/1164389/the-new-ps3-rival-arms-mali-t658-mobile-gpu

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/android-news/157775-arm-s-mali-mobile-gpu-equal-ps3-xbox360-graphics-power-18-months.html

[e8hffff]

Now you're talking about pulseaudio, but PA has nothing to do with this. Canonical didn't "adopt Mir" and it's not a project that advances Linux. It's a project that has nothing to do with Linux, and everything to do with Canonical's own agenda - it doesn't serve the needs of anyone besides Canonical, and isn't useful to anyone else, and is potentially harmful to the entire desktop Linux ecosystem.

I was generalising on the direction of distributions and what's considered progressive and not. It's not news that PulseAudio has the same hatred from those in the 'cave' as Mir vs Wayland.

The fact is Wayland was endless Youtube demos of people showing flowers and shapes spin or colour changes. It took Mir's announcement months ago to get Wayland kicked into action and now we see progress. Others criticised Mir for its choice to use Android drivers, now we see Wayland users scramble to use libhybris even though Sailfish team instigated the basic form of the library and its connection to Wayland.

Well no, there are no claims of "piracy". There's no such thing as "piracy" in open source software. Open source allows copying, modifications, even forking the codebase. Technically, Canonical hasn't done anything illegal. But that's all irrelevant here. I've already explained the libhybris issue to you and I don't see why you keep rehashing it and ignoring the actual point of the argument. The point is, there is no advantage to Mir, there is no good reason for anyone other than Canonical to use Mir, because it doesn't bring anything new to the table, only things that Wayland already does better.

Obviously but why then did Monk get upset when his own team forked MeeGo, they use QT, Alien Dalvik, Wayland, etc. Then we had countless Wayland fanboys screaming blue murder that Canonical was shafting the scene.

The other option would be to reimplement Mir, but then there'd be the same problem - they'd be incompatible with Canonical's Mir unless they constantly play catch-up, and if they just say "to hell with it, we'll just ignore compatibility", they'd no longer be doing Mir but a whole new display system. And at that point, they might as well just use Wayland instead, and get all the benefits of shared resources and effort from everyone else using Wayland.

Well now we can only hope the proprietary driver makers (Nvidia/AMD) pick the best display manager, else Wayland or Mir will be playing catchup. Personally I want Mir chosen as I'm yet to see any 'WOW' from Wayland. It's more like a XOrg rewrite. If the guy behind Wayland has his mission complete then it may be respectable, regarding speed and anti-screen tear.

[e8hffff]

Yes, obviously everyone needs "convergence", no one can succeed without "convergence", after all, Android has been having their own "convergent" desktop distro to match their mobile OS since day one... oh wait.

You didn't fathom my perspective.

Climate change is a known fact that is agreed upon by an overwhelming majority of the scientific community.

So my hunch was correct that you had no integrity, the reason my you have been arguing the trivial.

GM is no science fact., it's a political agenda created from Club of Rome.

“The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself." - Club of Rome 1993, 'The First Global Revolution'

[jrch2k8]

You realize that the Edge is a phone correct? And that top end ARM devices have GPUs as fast as those in the PS3.

top end ARM devices GPUs have an theorethical raw output close to the one present in the PS3 <-- Huge difference

and even so ARM SoC have very narrow bandwith so any tiny mistake can starve the pipeline way before even reach half of that theoretical raw power of the GPU

[dee.]

For Sailfish, they should copy Canonical and brings out a desktop distribution and push Jolla to be convergent like Ubuntu-Touch, else they risk being passed by or shadowed.

Yes, obviously everyone needs "convergence", no one can succeed without "convergence", after all, Android has been having their own "convergent" desktop distro to match their mobile OS since day one... oh wait.

I'm not a proponent of the Global-Warming Agenda as I think it's pure politics

Climate change is a known fact that is agreed upon by an overwhelming majority of the scientific community.