It's Been Four Years Since SteamOS Began Shipping With Not Much To Show

[FirstPersonBSOD]

As usual, anyone posting the linux kernel API instability as an issue just shows he is clueless.

That document talks about driver-kernel interfaces, while kernel-userspace interfaces are kept stable and have always been kept stable.

The issues applications have on Linux are overall the same issues they also have on Windows, they need to bundle ALL OS-level-libraries they might remotely need as changes in newer versions might break older applications. Windows development is just slower, but the issue is still there. Most applications on Windows ship a fuckton of .dlls in their folders just for the sake of not relying on OS libraries.

The current solution to that is flatpack and Snap, which aim to provide stable OS-level libraries and a way to make self-contained and sanboxed packages so the outdated (and probably vulnerable) applications don't fuck up the rest of the system when they get compromised.

I've been lurking in this forum for months and I'm signing up just to say this:

I think he's referring to userspace libraries, not the in-kernel APIs. The problem is that APIs/ABIs get replaced every few years usually with no or little deprecation period, outside of linking everything statically or bundle all the libraries you application depends on there's no guarantee it will still work in the future, something that Windows/macOS developers haven't have to deal with for a very long time.

[r1348]

and care about things that no user will ever care about.

You are aware this is a contradiction, right?

[GI_Jack]

Linux gaming:

Is a hedge bet in case Microsoft implodes, or imposes terms that finally cheese of most gamers to switch to linux.

SteamOS - Its a more accessible version of Linux for the type of people who really don't otherwise care about linux, but need to install it in a pinch once MS goes tits up.

Valve's insurance policy against MS stupidtiy remains there, unused. That is all.

[nslay]

You are aware this is a contradiction, right?

I recommend using a GUI web browser. You can see things about text that a terminal browser can't necessarily display. Or, if you're hard of sight, some browsers support zooming into a page. You may find the Windows Magnifier application useful too.

Here's some example text for you:
testing 1 2 3

[nuetzel]

Anyway, I'm happy with my assortment of games available in Linux, and with games like F1 2017 still coming, I will likely continue to be just fine.

...coming?

F1 2017 got an update today, automatically.

version 1.11, now --- Thank you Feral!

[humbug]

I buy my games on GOG now so I don't even need Steam anymore..

GOG should be encouraged too.
however they don't care much about Linux support, steam is way more interested and proactive in terms of providing good Linux support.

[starshipeleven]

I think he's referring to userspace libraries, not the in-kernel APIs.

He mentioned "stable_api_nonsense.txt", which is a text file in the kernel documentation https://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Docu...i_nonsense.txt and unsurprisingly it talks about kernel-driver interfaces, not about kernel-userspace interfaces.

The problem is that APIs/ABIs get replaced every few years usually with no or little deprecation period, outside of linking everything statically or bundle all the libraries you application depends on there's no guarantee it will still work in the future, something that Windows/macOS developers haven't have to deal with for a very long time.

This is the same that happens on Windows or MacOS, third party libraries change all the time and not necessarily in retro-compatible ways, just as with normal software development.

Linux distros are just bundling a fuckton of third party libraries, but they have no control over their development. Windows and MacOS don't, and each application bundles his own libraries.

What most people don't get is that with a LTS distro like for example OpenSUSE Leap or Ubuntu LTS or Debian (whatever release), you get the EXACT SAME situation as Windows or MacOS, and it will stay stable for 5 years (or more depending on whatever reasons).

Also, there is no guarantee that Windows stuff will keep working in the next Windows version (same as jumping on next LTS version), and that's the reason most software on Windows ships his own libraries and uses them instead of relying on OS libraries.

The only solution to this issue is allowing applications to bundle their own libraries like they do on Windows/MacOS. That way they only need to rely on very low-level interfaces in the libc and kernel, which are very stable and versioned.

To the contrary of Windows applications we want the linux applications to be sandboxed and locked down, so when they get compromised because they are using outdated libraries to work on the internet they won't put the system itself in danger (which is what happens on Windows/MacOS).

Which is what flatpack and Snaps do (flatpack does it better imho).

[Xen0sys]

Plain and simple, SteamOS needs at minimum feature parity with PS4's/ Xbox Ones etc.

If it can't do just about everything those can do (aside from platform specific games), it's never going to stand a chance.

There's no sleeping or auto power off.

There's no snapshotting of running games.

There's no real controller-friendly app integration.

List goes on.