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An Attempt To Push Ubuntu As A Gaming Platform

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  • #21
    Originally posted by jannis View Post
    Audio latency? Maybe they'll finally get rid of pulseaudio and choose jack-audio-connection-kit!
    On Twitter I suggested to Michael to do some audio latency benchmarks with PA, Jack, and various kernels.

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    • #22
      The thing is Linux already is a gaming platform - people do play games on it. So this is not a theoretical discussion as some people are making out. Improvements in any of these directions would be appreciated, but all platforms could receive improvements for gaming, not just Linux. Remember, the Humble Bundle guys are releasing games on Linux today - they are not waiting on a magic list of technical concerns to be fixed. Desura is selling games on Linux today - they are not waiting. Valve is going to release games on Linux as it stands today - they are also not waiting on some magical list.

      We already are a gaming platform. Yes, we should improve ourselves. But we have already made massive progress, technically and in terms of available titles and services, and the people acting like this can not happen as things stand now should wake up and see that it is already happening. We just need to keep the ball rolling.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
        Admirable goals, but good luck implementing them (especially, the library compatibility) without stagnating or forking so far from other Linux distros as to be a total outsider.
        well theoretically you could have game-specific library drectories with stable library versions. This would be basically the same strategy as all those .dll:s that are in an application directory rather than in a system directory on Windows.

        Ugly as hell, but probably the only way to handle this.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
          The thing is Linux already is a gaming platform - people do play games on it.
          Nevertheless it is not a gaming platform.

          For that you want video games available from the stores and digital distribution systems for the platform.

          But you only have an Ubuntu Software Center with free and open source software in it and indie developers aiming to be multiplatform.

          Everything else is not official, and not available to the customers.

          Steam can make the difference and it's a noble gesture from Valve to support Linux.

          Only thing that Valve depends on the income from their primary market, Microsoft Windows, which can be overtaken by the Microsoft Store being integrated to the operation system.

          Not to mention the mobile platforms, Valve currently not participating in them, Microsoft Store, Google Play and Apple Store does, and no competition is feasible with them in their platforms.

          I thinking more in a long term of course, as Microsoft Store is only available for Windows 8.

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          • #25
            My Opinions

            My personal opinions on each of Ubuntu's goals.

            Audio Support: I agree fully with what they want to achieve in this area. I would really enjoy some 5.1 and 3D positional audio in my games instead of the normal stereo output. I want true 5.1 not mixed channel to a 5.1 setup.

            Longevity of Binaries: This goal may be hard to achieve unless you have a set of sub directories dedicated to needed libs the games use. Or at least allow someone to recompile the games every 5-10yrs with the newer libs.

            Graphics Support: I've been using Nvidia since the 4mb riva 128. I have owned pretty much at least one card from every generation of their chips. I don't think I will ever change unless something faster and better supported comes out for Linux.

            Input devices support: This is a really interesting area. Wouldn't it be nice if we had a graphical config for things like the Razer Nostromo, Razer Naga and Razer Blackwidow? I game a lot on windows and as much as I can on Linux although I do have to reboot a lot.

            Multi-Arch Libappindicator: I have no idea what this is as I have never used Ubuntu.

            Process Clean-Up Actions: Umm, why would anyone have resolution restoration problems? Why are you not starting a second X Server to run your games in? That way you are not wasting gpu and cpu cycles rendering that opengl accelerated desktop behind the game.

            Unity Performance: Umm... LOL? People use this?

            Audio Latency: This is another interesting and sore spot for me in Linux. I honestly never had audio lag until Pulseaudio came into the picture. Or I at least never noticed audio lag in my every day tasks and gaming in Linux. I have always had multichannel sound output and input as, (I know I will be scoffed at for this but), I always use creative sound cards in Linux. I used my Audigy2zs for almost 8 to 9 years because onboard audio is ass and everyone knows it. They just don't want to admit it or care about audio enough to get a proper add on card that has hardware mixing support. I have since upgraded to a Creative X-FI titanium that also has hardware mixing support when we finally got the basic drivers in Linux for the card. There are plenty of other cards out there that have support for hardware mixing so from my point of view anyone that cares about gaming and audio in Linux will have a hardware mixing sound card wether it is from creative or not.
            Now, I honestly have tried my onboard audio chip, a Realtek 892 8 channel chip, on my Asus Sabertooth P67 mobo. The audio was fine but did not sound any better than what I had out of the X-Fi. With the onboard chip I needed Pulseaudio and this in turn caused a 1-6 second delay in my games audio. So obviously I went back to my X-Fi without Pulseaudio.

            The audio issue alone originally made me go back to windows for an entire year in 2009 - 2010. Then I decided to just use Gentoo and do a -pulseaudio in my USE flags. I have been using Linux since 1998 and have never ever experienced audio assery until pulseaudio. Honestly as well, I constantly install and try every version of freeBSD just to see if it is where I want it to be just so I can try to get away from Linux audio issues. If steam works in freeBSD I will kiss the Linux audio problems goodbye once and for all. Until then, -pulseaudio all the way.

            Ugg, my bad, it turned into a rant.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Vorzard View Post
              Nevertheless it is not a gaming platform.

              For that you want video games available from the stores and digital distribution systems for the platform.

              But you only have an Ubuntu Software Center with free and open source software in it and indie developers aiming to be multiplatform.
              Linux operating system is actually a gaming platform regardless the lack of commercial games from majority of mainstream publishers.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Vorzard View Post
                Nevertheless it is not a gaming platform.
                I play and buy games for it. It is the only platform I game on now, and I game a lot. What the hell is your definition? Your argument does not work even on a semantic level!

                Originally posted by Vorzard View Post
                For that you want video games available from the stores and digital distribution systems for the platform. But you only have an Ubuntu Software Center with free and open source software in it and indie developers aiming to be multiplatform.
                What the hell is this supposed to mean? First off, there are other Linux game services such as Gameolith and Desura, and second, all games are games. If you play games on a platform, and if you buy games for a platform, then that platform is, ladies and gentlemen, a gaming platform!

                Originally posted by Vorzard View Post
                Everything else is not official, and not available to the customers. Steam can make the difference and it's a noble gesture from Valve to support Linux.
                Valve can bring some bigger names, I agree, but your point is still flawed and comes from such a skewed perspective. You make all these walls to defend your narrow world view and yet any reasonable person can easily knock these down with a little logic!

                Trine 2 is a game. I play it on Linux. Amnesia is a game. I play it on Linux. They are both being sold for Linux. If I pay for them and if I play them, I am engaging and utilizing the Linux game market and I am using Linux as a gaming platform. Therefore it IS a gaming platform!

                And I am sorry if I am being a little more pedantic than usual, but this argument is such a complete and total non-sequitur that the fact it is still repeated is really beginning to piss me off. Grow up and look beyond your skewed little world view and realize what you are saying does not make any sense.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by MNKyDeth View Post
                  Input devices support: This is a really interesting area. Wouldn't it be nice if we had a graphical config for things like the Razer Nostromo, Razer Naga and Razer Blackwidow? I game a lot on windows and as much as I can on Linux although I do have to reboot a lot.
                  Well, this is unfortunately very dependant on the manufacturer. Thankfully, you can now get Roccat devices in Canada (through NCIX) so if I ever wanted to get one I would definitely go with them, based on what Larabel has said.

                  Originally posted by MNKyDeth View Post
                  Process Clean-Up Actions: Umm, why would anyone have resolution restoration problems? Why are you not starting a second X Server to run your games in? That way you are not wasting gpu and cpu cycles rendering that opengl accelerated desktop behind the game.
                  Well, never really had all that much trouble with this specifically, but I do have the annoying problem of xfdesktop forgetting it's icon placement after screen resolution changes. I have their positioning files backed up so that I can easily restore them, but this should still be unnecessary and should be fixed.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by MNKyDeth View Post
                    Audio Support: I agree fully with what they want to achieve in this area. I would really enjoy some 5.1 and 3D positional audio in my games instead of the normal stereo output. I want true 5.1 not mixed channel to a 5.1 setup.
                    I usually play games while using headphones, so anything above stereo doesn't interest me. But it would be nice to finally have some good environmental audio. I haven't found a lot of information, but I wonder how OpenAL-soft is doing with EFX extensions. The thing with those is that on Windows, you can't use more than EAX 2.0-level extensions in your game unless you pay Creative. Not sure how it is on OpenAL-soft right now, though.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                      I play and buy games for it. It is the only platform I game on now, and I game a lot. What the hell is your definition?
                      You are of course right, from your standpoint Linux is a gaming platform, no doubt about it.

                      But as we see not everyone shares your enthusiasm when it comes to developing a video game software to Linux.

                      Nowadays other platforms gets all the support from the developers, Linux barely gets something aside from indie games.

                      A gaming platform at least should have a customer base, not to mention marketing.

                      The question is more like, should Linux be a gaming platform.
                      Last edited by Vorzard; 10-15-2012, 01:56 PM.

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