Is LGP Going The Way Of Loki Software?

[gilboa]

(Sorry for the Piglish. Annoying 1m edit limit)

[gilboa]

I've tried X3 with 2 good flight sticks, and I wouldn't recommend it - the game is really geared towards mouse control. Even space battles are a problem, since all fight is done at too far a distance for a joystick to be convenient (not precise enough unless you'd get really close, and you'd be dust before you'd get close enough).

[LONG, please bear with me, it may solve the problem]
I couldn't disagree more!
I've played both X2 and X3 on CH Flightstick pro (until it died) and Saitek X52 and I couldn't imagine trying to play X3, especially a modified X3, with mouse only. Here's why:

1. Joystick / throttle combo is far better handling multiple concurrent controls with acceptable precision, read: changing the pitch/yaw while adjusting the throttle, strafing left/right, changing targets and shooting the main gun array. While it might sound far fetched, it's more-or-less required if you want to survive heavy guns fights, especially on highly modified X3's. (X3 with XTM, RRF and a touch of rebalancing)

2. Keybaord mapping: On the X52 I used a software of my own creation (sourceforge'd) to map large number of key combos to the different buttons on the joystick and throttle. This is more-or-less required if you want to master item 1.

As for the subject at hand (targeting enemies), well, a couple of things:
A. X3 includes a rudimentary physics model. While far from being real (Ships behave like aircraft instead of free-space fighters), both ships and gun fire are effected by this model (E.g. shooting while banking will spin the gun fire, much like corner kicks in football) making unaided aiming (see below) very hard. Especially when you're still flying a light-weight fighter, fighting other light weight fighters.
B. In order to "solve" the problem, you simply dock at the nearest equipment dock, and buy a "Fight Command Software" Mk1 and Mk2, this will not only give you a calculated hit-box (which more-or-less mimics modern fighters "pickle"), it also gives you some level of gun-fire-aiming corrections (Controlled by the "k" key). Just to clear, this is not a cheat, this a part of the game; Computer controlled fighters are either equipped with it (and nail you from 3KM) or not (and miss you from 20m). -Do not- trying to enter a gun-fight without one!

Beyond that, beyond the well documented issues with LGP support, X3 is an -amazing- game.
While the base game is no better than X2, the -huge- amounts of extensions, modifications and scripts (let alone the ability to customize the game yourself) that change each and every aspect of the game makes the best game I ever played, bar none. (...Even my wife agrees)

On the down side, X3 is a very steep learning curve. It has a fairly complex economy model and technology curve, making it far from ideal to anyone looking for a point-and-shoot space shoot-em-up game.
However, if you are willing to spend the time (and the frustration) required to master this game, you'll understand that the only thing more satisfying than killing 10 enemy fighters and getting 10,000 credit reward is to command a fleet of 20 battleship and 10 dreadnoughts and let them clean one of the Xenon or Khaak sectors gaining a 100,000,000 credit reward

[/LONG]

- Gilboa
P.S. I don't work or affiliated in way to LGP.

[hiryu]

Thanks!

Thanks for the responses folks, I will finally start playing X3 (with a mouse). The good thing about this approach is that I can take the game anywhere with me on my laptop.

I am going to look into cold war now!

[theclappyman]

LGP deserves every penny and more for delivering games to a traditionally difficult market. May then long continue.

[grigi]

To recap, I currently have:
X3
Shadowgrounds
Shadowgrounds: Survivor
Jets 'n Guns

Can anyone recommend some more good titles for me to buy?

I tremendously enjoyed Ankh, Ankh2, Jack Keane & Sacred.
The first 3 are adventure games (ported by Runesoft), and Sacred is a 3D/2.5D isometric hack&slash.

Had lots of fun/frustration with Cold War, which is a very, very unusual game. You play a framed American reporter in Soviet Russia during the cold war. A puzzle game, very akin to the old Hitman series.

[theclappyman]

Well, whatever.

I'm personally happy with what LGP provides. I didn't care for the DRM either, but I was able to live with it. Now that I understand why the DRM is there in the first place, I have even less a problem with it.

I, unfortunately, didn't know LGP even existed until they had that big sale not too far back and saw a news posting on it (probably on phoronix, I don't think slashdot even posted anything up about that sale). Until then, I had no idea. I promptly purchased X3 and Jets 'n Guns.

I received X3 in a timely manager, but Jets 'n Guns I didn't receive until months later, and when I finally did get it (after sending some emails back and forth), it was for the regular price and not the sale price. I wouldn't have put up with this from any regular company. But I made an exception for a linux company (in particular, a linux game company).

I tried the Shadowgrounds: survivor demo, loved it, and ordered it as well as the previous Shadowgrounds game. This time around I received games quickly with no issues. Fortunately, it seems my issue with Jets 'n Guns was a fluke, and not a common occurrence.

While this isn't entirely off topic, I have some comments and questions:

I don't mind paying more money for native linux games, because I'm more than happy to have... native linux games. In fact, I'd like to buy more.

To recap, I currently have:
X3
Shadowgrounds
Shadowgrounds: Survivor
Jets 'n Guns

Can anyone recommend some more good titles for me to buy?

LGP team, can you PLEASE patch your shadowground games to run properly on 64-bit linux? I'm tired of having to explicitly point these games to use the correct gtk libraries (ie, the ones that ship with the game). This would be TRIVIAL to fix. If there's a shortage of manpower, I'd be willing to help with the fix personally.

For X3, does someone know of a functional and (this is important) left-handed friendly flight stick? This has kept me from playing the game pased 45 minutes. I like the game a lot so far, but my current flight stick is too anemic for how I want to play the game, and all the others I see that are good enough are strictly for right-handers.

Cold War is a really fun third person shooter with a decent enough story. It will keep you hooked for 20 odd hours or so, and it does have replay at the higher levels. It got very good reviews on Linux, and is well worth the 27 pounds. This really is a great, fun game. Check out the linux games review of this game. Great game imo.

[miles]

For X3, does someone know of a functional and (this is important) left-handed friendly flight stick? This has kept me from playing the game pased 45 minutes. I like the game a lot so far, but my current flight stick is too anemic for how I want to play the game, and all the others I see that are good enough are strictly for right-handers.

I've tried X3 with 2 good flight sticks, and I wouldn't recommend it - the game is really geared towards mouse control. Even space battles are a problem, since all fight is done at too far a distance for a joystick to be convenient (not precise enough unless you'd get really close, and you'd be dust before you'd get close enough).

[hiryu]

Whatever

Well, whatever.

I'm personally happy with what LGP provides. I didn't care for the DRM either, but I was able to live with it. Now that I understand why the DRM is there in the first place, I have even less a problem with it.

I, unfortunately, didn't know LGP even existed until they had that big sale not too far back and saw a news posting on it (probably on phoronix, I don't think slashdot even posted anything up about that sale). Until then, I had no idea. I promptly purchased X3 and Jets 'n Guns.

I received X3 in a timely manager, but Jets 'n Guns I didn't receive until months later, and when I finally did get it (after sending some emails back and forth), it was for the regular price and not the sale price. I wouldn't have put up with this from any regular company. But I made an exception for a linux company (in particular, a linux game company).

I tried the Shadowgrounds: survivor demo, loved it, and ordered it as well as the previous Shadowgrounds game. This time around I received games quickly with no issues. Fortunately, it seems my issue with Jets 'n Guns was a fluke, and not a common occurrence.

While this isn't entirely off topic, I have some comments and questions:

I don't mind paying more money for native linux games, because I'm more than happy to have... native linux games. In fact, I'd like to buy more.

To recap, I currently have:
X3
Shadowgrounds
Shadowgrounds: Survivor
Jets 'n Guns

Can anyone recommend some more good titles for me to buy?

LGP team, can you PLEASE patch your shadowground games to run properly on 64-bit linux? I'm tired of having to explicitly point these games to use the correct gtk libraries (ie, the ones that ship with the game). This would be TRIVIAL to fix. If there's a shortage of manpower, I'd be willing to help with the fix personally.

For X3, does someone know of a functional and (this is important) left-handed friendly flight stick? This has kept me from playing the game pased 45 minutes. I like the game a lot so far, but my current flight stick is too anemic for how I want to play the game, and all the others I see that are good enough are strictly for right-handers.

[Svartalf]

I have tried, and believe me, they love der fucking windows like i love women.

Not all of them do. I'm just not connected enough to the millionaires in question to get seed money for things.

[Svartalf]

Maybe you could... Drop the price to $5.00 USD on the small games and $10.00 USD on the large ones, and watch your sales rise through the roof.

Unfortunately, there's this NASTY thing called per-unit royalties that may/may not preclude one doing that as it could be below the same.

It doesn't work along the ways that most people think they do.

You pay an up-front amount of money to get the right to produce said port unless you go to an Indie like I've done and get a percentage of Linux proceeds deal with them. This amount varies but is in the solid 5 figures range for the class of games LGP have been able to get. It's in the 6's for things like the stuff we keep getting requests for. That is before you get to even start and it comes out of your hide and has to come back somewhere if you're even going to break even.

Then you do your development work to move it over. Some titles are cleanly written and take minimal effort to get up and going (Caster, for example...) and others aren't so nice (**cough** Disciples 2...**cough**). That means you have a time to port there that could be short or long- about like you see with LGP right now. Now you have to PAY these people unless they're doing it out of the kindness of their hearts (yeah...riiight...)- so you need to account for that as well. It's typically an hourly rate or you cut a commission deal like LGP does, which would be a generous cut of the proceeds...if the title sells decently.

At that point, you might be at a point where you need to put copies up for download or purchase in meatspace. If you make meatspace stuff, you'll need to get in touch with a duplicator to press the CD's/DVD's and to package them up. Figure at least 1-2 dollars per copy for that if you're doing meatspace stuff. It should be noted that not all royalty deals for porting/publication allow you to provide downloadable content versions of the title; as often as not you've got to get a separate deal for that one.

Once you've made up your copies to be sold, you immediately owe per-unit royalties. This is one of the things that killed Loki games- it's what cost them over a quarter mil to iD over Quake 3:Arena. In that case, Loki pressed entirely TOO many of the copies, screwed up their delivery logistics and had most everyone buy the Windows SKU and "patch" it. (There is a reason why I do probably carry on a bit more than I ought to about that subject...we had a shot THEN to have it all come together and people in the community unwittingly let everyone else down because of "I want it NOW" thinking...) You owe this up-front, really, again, like the source code access cost you. They cut you a smidge of slack on the delivery of that money so you press and pray the title sells reasonably well or the publisher/studio cuts you some more slack- or you're flush enough with cash to spend that money as well.

In the end, the access royalties and per-unit royalties end up being that $5-10 you refer to as being a magic price. It certainly won't cover developer costs, duplicator costs, or...god forbid, profits.

Why does GoG sell it for those amounts? Because they're an industry insider (CD Projekct runs the company in question...) and the titles they're selling are off the back-inventory that was previously not being published or sold at the time they scored the deal. The studio or publisher has already made back everything they were going to through the normal channels and they're letting GoG sell them at the low prices they are and online so they can mine that last smidge of potential profits out of the titles in question. I'm hopeful to wedge us into that space so we can at least get decent titles at fair prices that while they're AAA titles of yesteryear, they're still fun and very much worth what they're asking for them. That way we can get better sales figures for Linux as a potential market for the other players in the industry.