AMD Radeon Linux Gaming Performance At Parity Between KDE Plasma 6.0 X11 vs. Wayland

[mrg666]

xservers repository is about as active as any other mature piece of software that works and is in widespread use.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver

Also, the whole point of OSS is also that its not dependant on any one entity or contributor, if something is broken - fixing it yourself and sending upstream the changes isn't just possible it is actively encouraged.

Declaring an OSS project depreciated is about as meaningful as declaring the sun depreciated because you can only work the night shift - interesting talking point, but meaningless to anyone else.

It looks like a really active project. Good for you. I wish you all the best with your really alive and well X11. Can we move on?

[qarium]

Yet I'm always the one providing facts, links, while you guys literally just post "never had issues with Wayland." Nobody gives a flying fuck of your anecdotal experience OR what you use the PC for.
Let's not forget shills like you who said "Wayland is faster than X11" 10 years ago LMFAO, even though it's still slower due to bugs.
Get fucked by facts as always. Cope harder.

you get the point that it was a 2 year old gnome version ? i run fedora 40 with gnome46
this means its pretty sure that no real gnome user would experience this ....

it is not anecdotal story its just the fact that a real gnome user just use fedora 39 or fedora 40... ubuntu is just slow here to update gnome.

[smitty3268]

Obviously.

Someone leaving it doesn't make it official since someone else picked it up (the maintenance).

I suppose you are still using the actively developed OpenOffice too

Anyway, X won't truly be dead until 2032, or whenever the RHEL contracts finally run out. It's going to keep getting bug/security patches until then. The major desktops will probably stop supporting it before then, although we'll see. That's far enough in the future that it will just depend on how things go.

What you are (intentionally?) misinterpreting is that when people on these forums claim it's dead what they mean is that it's entered a maintenance mode state where no real new features will be added, and you'll either need to be content with what you have now for the rest of time or move on to a different solution.

[Weasel]

I suppose you are still using the actively developed OpenOffice too

Anyway, X won't truly be dead until 2032, or whenever the RHEL contracts finally run out. It's going to keep getting bug/security patches until then. The major desktops will probably stop supporting it before then, although we'll see. That's far enough in the future that it will just depend on how things go.

What you are (intentionally?) misinterpreting is that when people on these forums claim it's dead what they mean is that it's entered a maintenance mode state where no real new features will be added, and you'll either need to be content with what you have now for the rest of time or move on to a different solution.

I'm not attached to X11, I just hate Wayland because it cripples essential power user desktop features. If Arcan becomes viable by 2032 I won't mind switching to it.

Anyway, I barely use LibreOffice to begin with, and it doesn't lack features compared to OpenOffice, does it?

[Weasel]

So X11 tiling window managers have worked perfectly Weasel??

Don't care, tiling WMs are the spawn of satan anyway. They don't deserve to exist.

[Weasel]

Do you have any benchmarks suggesting that input latency is a problem in that scenario? I'm especially interested as this is a use-case where Wine-Wayland will likely be able to outperform the X11 backend on the rendering front (by putting the client content into a subsurface).

Wayland has more input lag due to the retarded design decisions they made, since they cater to mobile casuals. (literally)

I don't know what "benchmark" you want here? I mean it has more trips so it also depends on your refresh rate (and Wayland has an obsession with forcing it) and so on. Whether you notice it or not is subjective. Power users and gamers definitely care about 30ms of extra lag, in fast paced games.

[Weasel]

Doesn't sound like it was written by a current maintainer, nor someone with budding interest in signing up for the job. If you can show where this is listed, I would appreciate that.

I meant that he's the one making releases now, instead of Adam Jackson.

[piotrj3]

Its not fud. The issues Nvidia has had with glamor due to the way glamor are the same that happens with some your old opengl 1.0-.2.0 games. These are design to exploit the locking of implicit sync.

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/issues/1317

Yes early direct x games as in direct x 1.0 that wine can run end up using opengl or X11 2d rendering while expecting correct implicit sync. When implicit sync is not right as that issue 1317 describes everything turns into a mess.

Yes there is a reason to use zink on Nvidia hardware to get a better opengl implicit sync implementation.

I used extensivly Nvidia + Linux on X11 in time Wine was still translating Directx stuff to OpenGL ( DXVK wasn't existing). I never got weird flickering mentioned.

Neither I heard of any such problems before and I wrote tutorials how to run 3 quite popular games (+ i am moderator of certain gaming community helping people with technical problems running on linux, yes author of game partially do support running his games officially on linux and some via proton/wine) in the past using wine with special workarounds and again never heard anyone saying they get flicker. Tearing yes (that could be fixed by full composition pipeline or special flags from DEs) but not mentioned flicker. And yes I expierienced mentioned flicker in xwayland myself on my machine, although most of time I am lucky to not expierience it, and I can tell you i literally don't remember something for years back. And keep in mind Nvidia got "rid of" implicit sync in around 2007-2008 (windows Vista).

But they didn't get rid of it completly. They had business use cases of opengl etc. and they still maintain workstation tier support for them. In fact Erik does mention in certain cases they do have implicit sync implemented. What they lack is implicit sync BUFFER support. So eg. something else than nvidia tries to read from buffer that GPU didn't finish working on. But they do have support for implicitly synced opengl calls (eg. stuff like swapchain is correctly implicitly synced).

Also Erik specifically mentioned, that this issue is likely to happen when client renders at speed below refresh rate. What was extremly common thing for 2 things i runned under Wine + opengl translation. Seriously, Nvidia wouldn't be passing OpenGL validation tests (especially modern ones) if they failed such basic things. And yes people other than nvidia themselves were running them and they do pass fully 4.6

Bug mentions that only Present, DRI3 in Xwayland. Not a single person says opengl corruption happens elsewhere outside of Xwayland. There was literally 1 and it turned out it was a bug in KDE that Erik fixed himself.

[mSparks]

Anyway, X won't truly be dead until 2032, or whenever the RHEL contracts finally run out.

That was absolutely the plan,

A plan that assumed they would stop taking new X11 contracts in 418 days from today.
A plan that assumed widespread wayland 3PD adoption well before now due to its far superior performance and being much easier to develop for and support
A plan that assumed only RHEL contributes to Linux desktop
A plan that assumed making wayland default would make people use it even though it didn't work

I think they are probably going to need a new plan.

[qarium]

Ive had a few projects that Ive piled more effort than I would have liked into refactoring stuff on the promise of better performance, only to be left gutted when that better performance didn't materialise.
But the scale of this wayland flop must be unprecedented in software engineering.
All that effort to at best par what has existed for years/decades before, damn thats gotta sting.

no serious gnome user is on this old gnome version... i am on fedora 40 and gnome 46 and i can not experience any of these slowdowns.

this test was bias from start to end. also why do you think that benchmark x11 vs Xwayland makes any sense ?

it makes no sense at all it is legacy code... just wait until wine/proton has native wayland support then all the windows games run native wayland instead of Xwayland.