Mainline Linux Support Is Being Worked On For A $100~200 ARM Handheld Gaming Console

[skeevy420]

Right, the low-powered ARM device talked about here might just be a small step away from x86/Windows to ARM/Linux. Even porting from x86/Windows to x86/Linux is a lot of work, porting to a different ISA is yet another beast to tackle. But these ARM vendors have to start somewhere, Microsoft puts some standardization efforts already into the ARM desktop ecosystem (for the better or worse, I can't tell). Microsoft or Sony would have more weight behind them to force developers to care about a new ISA, just as it was in the past. At least Microsoft was rumored to build their next console with their own ARM chip and might license AMD IP for the GPU. That would push gaming on ARM as a whole to the next level. Porting that ARM work to Linux might get easier then.

Nearly 10 years ago AMD was working on hybrid AMD/x86 systems. One that I know is the PS4. It makes you wonder which one of just x86, just ARM, some ARM/x86 hybrid, or ARM with an x86 translator module the different companies will go with. Feel free to swap x86 and ARM with anything else. It's rhetorical fun.

We might head into a future where either gaming PCs get even more customizable as before (thinking of all the different IP choices for Intel's tiles / AMD's chiplets) or quite the opposite, closer to a console-like walled garden where only multiple closed hardware platforms are competing with one another (thinking of Apple vs. Microsoft vs. Nvidia vs. Sony vs. AMD/Intel?).

A Linux console was the Steam machine's original vision, but as Valve scrapped these plans long time ago, I am not so sure if they are still thinking about it. The time might come where such a push might be doable, but they lack the power to get enough developers to care at the moment. Even the Steam deck might be not important enough for game publishers to really care about Linux support by now. I hope that continues to change over the long run and that we'll keep a open desktop platform.

I've always thought the Deck was a great way for Valve to refresh their Linux development, fix what went wrong the first time, by giving the consumer a PC that they can't upgrade or swap parts on outside of storage. It gives them fixed hardware and software with misc. external displays to get all the kinks worked out on their time frame; something better than the status quo of the Steam client or Flatpak or ??? being ran on infinitely diverse amounts of Linux distributions and hardware configurations. I love Linux for that infinite diversity, but it has to be an annoying clusterfuck to have to deal with.

[Dukenukemx]

Good thing noone told this to my Powkiddy RGB30... maybe that's why it can run the N64 Lego Racers then!

Barely do n64 games. Really depends on the game. It's not like I haven't tried N64 emulation on a RK3566, because you find them in every Kodi box.

I understand it, you're not the target audience. Good for you. I'm on my second device for now.

Dude, I got many portable gaming devices. The problem with your Miyoo Mini Plus, or anything with a RK3566 is that there's already better alternatives. A Nintendo DS is like $60 used on Ebay and can do most things except N64 emulation, but it can do DS games. Your Powkiddy RGB30 could do DS emulation, but not perfectly. You can pick up a PSP for less than $100 which again, can do all those things plus play PSP games. N64 emulation isn't something that I would recommend on the PSP either. Your RBG30 would not play PSP games at full speed either though. You would need something like the Powkiddy X28 which costs nearly $200. The PS Vita can be bought for $130, and can emulate more than the RGB30. The Nintendo 3DS can be found for $100-$150, and again can emulate more plus play native games. What is ultimately really sad is that a used Nintendo Switch Lite can be had for $100-$130, and with a RP2040 and some soldering you can have this machine modded to play a lot more games, including Switch games. The community behind modded Switches is huge, as I have even Brutal Doom on mine.

I have many more portable gaming consoles, like original Gameboy modded with louder speakers and IPS screen, as well as a GameGear, Gameboy Advance SP, Sega Nomand, and etc. I don't own a Steam Deck, which is my dream portable machine. At this point, another machine that can emulate NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, and PS1 games is a dime a dozen. A machine with a RK3566 or similar isn't worth it. Just give me a portable machine with an x86 chip, because I don't have time to get behind the ARM cult who want to believe in a future with ARM. I wish the Steam Deck was cheaper, but even used they're almost $300. I'm not asking to play Baldur's Gate 3 or anything like that, but there's plenty of great games from the Xbox 360 and PS3 I'd like to have on the go and they're native on x86 Windows.

Phones? I don't feel the Android user experience suitable for gaming, nor carrying a secondary equipment along with my phone for playing on the go (on the bus, for example). Playing on the phone directly using touchscreen overlays is possible but if I want to play a game, I want the buttons required for it and I'll take the worst gamepad ever existed over any touchscreen option. For the record, I did play games on phones before, using a Java emulator upon my old Nokia 5310 XpressMusic more than a decade ago for Game Boy. But that phone had a full keypad

(I like Android, it's just that I don't feel Android is appropriate for this usecase. The RGB30 lacks sidelining Android as an option. I don't miss it.)

You don't think Android is suitable for gaming or you have an iPhone? It's OK to admit owning an Apple product, we've all made mistakes. As someone who has LineageOS on all his Android devices, I can tell you that emulation works really well. My devices aren't powerful enough to do Switch emulation, but it's really close. But yea, I don't like the idea of carrying around a Bluetooth controller either. I miss my QWERTY slide out phones, but they're too old and slow for modern phone use.

[Graion Dilach]

You don't think Android is suitable for gaming or you have an iPhone? It's OK to admit owning an Apple product, we've all made mistakes.

The former. I only had a company-supplied iPhone and that ensured that I'd never get one for personal use. The only reason I have a personal Apple account is to buy music from iTunes, but I found out they locked me out completely literally two weeks ago, because I only log in once every three-four months at best.

I mentioned it before, I don't want touchscreen input on a retroclone. Android breathes on touchscreen input. Half of the DS catalogue lives on the touchscreen input. I prefer physical buttons for interaction and I keep sticking to those.

The PSP/Vita line was something I eyed back then, but I couldn't afford these stuff until the recent years after I finished uni (years after the Vita was phased out from production) and AFAIK even the Vita is already bigger than what can be safely pocketed. The Switch Lite is physically huge and I don't want anything near that size. If I think about it, the firstparty device which fit the closest to what I'd look for in a handheld would be the GBA SP. I value the form factor that much above library or hardware.

But I didn't wanted to opt for the second-hand market. I live in East Europe, only God would know what did a potential device went through before it'd reach me. No thanks.

I haven't yet ran into a PSP game which I found unplayable (then again, I started up, like what, 4 games, that being a few fighters and Final Fantasy 1) but tbh I didn't chose the system for playing PSP either. (I mean, the RGB30 screen aspect ratio is 1:1 which is the worst available option for PSP's 16:9 out of everything on the market.) What I wanted is a system functional for Pokémon Gen1-3 romhacks (where RTC functionality is used a LOT, so that became a hard requirement), NES, PS1, preferably Soul Calibur on Dreamcast in a form factor which maximizes the space in my pocket but doesn't go beyond it, preferably with Linux (I did considered a T618 device, but those are Android-only touchscreen monsters... maybe the RG405V is compact enough, but that one has a fan. Yay for battery?) and a fair amount of the RK3566 retroclone lineup ticks these boxes. An RK3326 wouldn't have added anything against a MMP, so they were never considered. Everything else (wanky NDS, wanky PSP, PC-98, Pico-8) is just a bonus. Sure, the RGB30 can actually stack the DS screens and still stay readable. It works? Yes. Does it make me want to play NDS games or even care about DS performance? Not at all. I've tested that out with a short session and promptly ignored it for my other games thenafter.

I don't want to build a collection of devices and I never wanted multiple ones even. I think if I would've picked the Ambernic RG35XX instead of the MMP from the start, I wouldn't even bought the RGB30 either, because that one has the RTC working from the get-go. Despite that my ergonomics issues with the MMP would have still applied to the RG35XX as well, My issues with the fake RTC was the sole motivator to look into an alternative.

I also agree with that part of your opinion that above the $100 category, the retroclones lose the point, because they can't do the PS2 generation well enough to be considered worthwhile and at that point it's more reasonable to just take the bullet and invest into the Deck. If you have all those devices, then again, great for you. I somewhat even envy you for having those. However, I missed out on them, and today all I want is a single device covering only the portion of what I feel missed out of instead of building an entire collection of them from the secondhand market. The RGB30 works for me.

[Dukenukemx]

I mentioned it before, I don't want touchscreen input on a retroclone. Android breathes on touchscreen input. Half of the DS catalogue lives on the touchscreen input. I prefer physical buttons for interaction and I keep sticking to those.

I agree, which is why I bought a Bluetooth gamepad for it. You'd be surprised how many emulators and games support physical buttons on Android.

The PSP/Vita line was something I eyed back then, but I couldn't afford these stuff until the recent years after I finished uni (years after the Vita was phased out from production) and AFAIK even the Vita is already bigger than what can be safely pocketed. The Switch Lite is physically huge and I don't want anything near that size. If I think about it, the firstparty device which fit the closest to what I'd look for in a handheld would be the GBA SP. I value the form factor that much above library or hardware.

The PSP is great because it's just small enough to fit in my pocket. I do have a GBA SP which I plan to upgrade it to IPS screen, because again it just fits in my pocket. The Powkiddy X55 like the Switch and Deck, won't fit in your pocket. The only reason I like the Switch is because it brings home console games on the go. As much as I like these portable consoles, there aren't many games made for them that I like. It's not like the battery life on the Switch is good, but it is a compromise I'm willing to make for better games on the go. The Steam Deck is even worse on battery life, but again it goes far beyond the Switch on what games can be played. Also, Dolphin and Wii emulation is hard to do on anything that doesn't run GNU/Linux or Android.

But I didn't wanted to opt for the second-hand market. I live in East Europe, only God would know what did a potential device went through before it'd reach me. No thanks.

Nothing I own is new. Most of the devices were broken in some fashion. Original Gameboy didn't work, but had corroded battery connectors. PSP had a broken screen, so I replaced the screen. GBA SP was missing it's screen, so I replaced it along with housing. My nephews Switch was used but worked, until he broke the charging port. Replacing a Switch USB-C connector is not easy, and he blew an inductor along with the the M92 IC. It helps to have some basic soldering skills if you want to get into retro gaming on the cheap.

Does it make me want to play NDS games or even care about DS performance? Not at all. I've tested that out with a short session and promptly ignored it for my other games thenafter.

The main appeal of the DS is the ported n64 games. A DS can't emulate the N64, but it did have ports of N64 games. The DS was also Nintendo's best selling game console ever, and #2 world wide.

I don't want to build a collection of devices and I never wanted multiple ones even. I think if I would've picked the Ambernic RG35XX instead of the MMP from the start, I wouldn't even bought the RGB30 either, because that one has the RTC working from the get-go. Despite that my ergonomics issues with the MMP would have still applied to the RG35XX as well, My issues with the fake RTC was the sole motivator to look into an alternative.

I didn't mean to build a collection, it just kinda worked out that way. I have a problem.

I also agree with that part of your opinion that above the $100 category, the retroclones lose the point, because they can't do the PS2 generation well enough to be considered worthwhile and at that point it's more reasonable to just take the bullet and invest into the Deck. If you have all those devices, then again, great for you. I somewhat even envy you for having those. However, I missed out on them, and today all I want is a single device covering only the portion of what I feel missed out of instead of building an entire collection of them from the secondhand market. The RGB30 works for me.

Can't tell me Switch games aren't appealing? There wasn't a whole lot of games on the PS2 and Xbox that make me desperately want to have emulation for them. Shadow of the Colossus, God of Wars, and Final Fantasy X is all I can think of for the PS2. Having an x86 chip with working GPU graphics means I could enjoy games like Thief 1&2, American McGee's Alice, Halo, and Half Life. There's a cutoff on how much a portable ARM chip can emulate. Switch is still the most appealing portable console you could have that can also emulate a lot of consoles as well, plus they're cheap. Problem is they're still dwarfed by the Steam Deck. If I want something that fits in my pocket and has a decent library of games then it's the DS and GBA SP. PSP is kinda big, but kinda worth it. Anything else is going in a carry case.

[tokyovigilante]

…RG35XX+ are next on my list...

Awesome, thanks! I have one and am interested in getting a 64-bit userspace and proper OpenGL support with the Panfrost driver if that is possible, let me know if I can help/test.