Steam on Linux Gaming Marketshare Steady For April

[Quackdoc]

Ha! Steam hasn't even been updated to a 64bit client. I doubt it'll ever be ported to ARM, especially as Apple seems to be very Anti-gaming outside of iOS.

Steam will. Steam doesn't support 64bit, because there is no real need to. depreciating 32bit isn't feasible for the near future, which is why ubuntu backtracked that endeavor. Arm (risc in general, still waiting for a risc-v alternative to raspberry pi...) however, will become more and more popular as it matures and emulation of x86 becomes more viable. and we start to see arm become more popular.

the M1 for better or for worst, has proven the capabilities of custom silicon. and more people will start to do it. Linux already has a very large software catalogue for arm based programs. (I also expect to see more chromebooks, and chromebook-alikes, with the new virtio-gpu work coming along)

Steam supporting it is a matter of time.

[Xaero_Vincent]

I'll tell you a secret, it's my website I'm not a fanatic of any OS and, yes, Windows has a ton of issues but it mostly works and it has stellar backwards compatibility. Linux on the desktop is finicky as hell and its backwards compatibility is a bloody joke. It's not there even for open source applications (something open source fans really relish). Good luck compiling and running directly KDE 1.0/2.0 applications in your modern Linux distro. Not only the code will not compile, you'll have troubles finding and making work old libraries or even using older APIs because they were deprecated a long time ago.

Thats pretty funny

I think it's fair to say some distributions offer better backwards compatibility than others.

I've gotten some 20 year old binary Linux games to work on modern distributions. It isn't click and play but usually will work with some compatibility libs, such as these:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gtk/

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/l...%2B%2B296-bin/
https://archlinux.org/packages/multilib/x86_64/lib32-sdl/

For fun I've gotten the Netscape 9 browser binary to work very recently, which was built in 2007. It required compatibility libs. Older versions of the browser seem to segfault, however. So there is a limit to how old you can go without needing to resort to running an ancient distro in a virtual machine. But the same can be said about Windows. Hence why Microsoft offered "Windows XP Mode" for Windows 7--because the ABI compatibility layer with older versions of Windows isn't enough for some apps.

As far as ancient, unmodified open-source software not compiling, that may be true. But if there is a desire to use old software on modern Linux it can be done when devs add the fixes and workarounds. This has been done with KDE 1 and 2

For instance KDE 1.1 and all it's apps work on bleeding-edge Arch/Garuda (my screenshot):

[leech]

Steam will. Steam doesn't support 64bit, because there is no real need to. depreciating 32bit isn't feasible for the near future, which is why ubuntu backtracked that endeavor. Arm (risc in general, still waiting for a risc-v alternative to raspberry pi...) however, will become more and more popular as it matures and emulation of x86 becomes more viable. and we start to see arm become more popular.

the M1 for better or for worst, has proven the capabilities of custom silicon. and more people will start to do it. Linux already has a very large software catalogue for arm based programs. (I also expect to see more chromebooks, and chromebook-alikes, with the new virtio-gpu work coming along)

Steam supporting it is a matter of time.

How long did it take for Steam to support another operating system? Sure, play through emulation. I can see that. But Steam has to support it's huge library of games. And whether Steam supports ARM or not, the actual software would have to support it (if you're looking for native games vs emulation). Obviously I can't speak for Valve, but I wouldn't spend any time on porting Steam over to the M1 unless a lot of developers asked for it. Also, will Apple even allow it? Sure seems to me that they'd want the juicy Apple App Store money on their new architecture.

Anyhow, guess we'll see in a few years whether or not Valve seems like they care enough. As it is, it seems they mostly serve Linux users out of their own self-preservation, as they were fearful that MS was going to start forcing everyone to use their App Store. Apple's already been known to do such things, so for them to really support the new Macs is something else... Now if you're talking about an ARM client for Linux on ARM CPUs, then sure, why not? That'd be easy, but you'd still run into Emulation, and last I checked, Wine didn't run great on ARM CPUs.

[leech]

Thats pretty funny

I think it's fair to say some distributions offer better backwards compatibility than others.

I've gotten some 20 year old binary Linux games to work on modern distributions. It isn't click and play but usually will work with some compatibility libs, such as these:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gtk/

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/l...%2B%2B296-bin/
https://archlinux.org/packages/multilib/x86_64/lib32-sdl/

For fun I've gotten the Netscape 9 browser binary to work very recently, which was built in 2007. It required compatibility libs. Older versions of the browser seem to segfault, however. So there is a limit to how old you can go without needing to resort to running an ancient distro in a virtual machine. But the same can be said about Windows. Hence why Microsoft offered "Windows XP Mode" for Windows 7--because the ABI compatibility layer with older versions of Windows isn't enough for some apps.

As far as ancient, unmodified open-source software not compiling, that may be true. But if there is a desire to use old software on modern Linux it can be done when devs add the fixes and workarounds. This has been done with KDE 1 and 2

For instance KDE 1.1 and all it's apps work on bleeding-edge Arch/Garuda (my screenshot):

Ha, yeah the Loki Games ports seem to still work with some patched installers. and they came out 20~ years ago.

[Quackdoc]

How long did it take for Steam to support another operating system? Sure, play through emulation. I can see that. But Steam has to support it's huge library of games. And whether Steam supports ARM or not, the actual software would have to support it (if you're looking for native games vs emulation). Obviously I can't speak for Valve, but I wouldn't spend any time on porting Steam over to the M1 unless a lot of developers asked for it. Also, will Apple even allow it? Sure seems to me that they'd want the juicy Apple App Store money on their new architecture.

Anyhow, guess we'll see in a few years whether or not Valve seems like they care enough. As it is, it seems they mostly serve Linux users out of their own self-preservation, as they were fearful that MS was going to start forcing everyone to use their App Store. Apple's already been known to do such things, so for them to really support the new Macs is something else... Now if you're talking about an ARM client for Linux on ARM CPUs, then sure, why not? That'd be easy, but you'd still run into Emulation, and last I checked, Wine didn't run great on ARM CPUs.

1. Steam also had very little incentive to do so, if they had more incentive, it would have been faster. steam is a company not a nonprofit.

2. It wouldn't take all that much to port the steam client to arm. especially not when there is so much potential for the arm ecosystem (ChromeOS is working on getting steam working on x86 devices, and also hopefully arm devices anyway)

3. Would mac allow it? Yes. Steam exists on mac.

4. Valve supports linux, because Lord Gaben thought that linux has a brighter future than windows long term. and judging about cloud streaming and the overall direction of windows, looks like they are right. But the users are the issue, windows would never lock itself down to that degree. that would be equivalent to trying to suck start 12ga buck shot.

5.Wine works fine on arm cpu's. Box86 is great for 32bit systems. which is full translation. M1 wine works fairly performant too. as for 64bit full emulation, its still fairly new, but someone is working on Box86_64, and FEX emulator is supposedly good, But I have no arm devices to test it.

[birdie]

Thats pretty funny

KDE 1.1 was heavily patched to support modern Linux'es, right: https://github.com/KDE/kde1-kdebase

"Historical copy of the base applications module of KDE 1, adapted to compile on modern systems (circa. 2016) " - your fanboyism doesn't allow you to even follow the news.

Good luck compiling and using the original unmodified sources. Good luck compiling and using the software which no one cares fixing/porting to moder Linux'es.

Even relatively recent KDE 3.5.10 requires a large number of patches to fix GCC compatibility and huge patches to properly support modern software stack because many features the DE relied on were completely deprecated and removed, e.g. HAL.

Let's overview kdelibs-3.5.10 patches alone:

3_5_BRANCH.diff
add-suse-translations.diff
admin.diff
allow-man-setgid.diff
applications.menu-fallback.diff
arts-acinclude.patch
artwork.diff
autostart-spec.diff
avahi-pidfile.diff
bnc557126.diff
bug-382959_kabc_fix_vcardparser.patch
bug-399296_ftphandling-fix.diff
bundle-locale-help.diff
CATALOG.kdelibs3.diff
clever-menu.diff
dcop-header-fix-gcc47.patch
default-useragent.diff
desktop-translations.diff
disable-idn-support.diff
disable-samba-dialog-without-smb.diff
fileshare.diff
fix-accidental-double-free-in-kjs-garbage-collector.patch
fix-dcopidlng-within-kdelibs-build.diff
fix-gnome-help-support.diff
fix-gnome-help-support_legacy.diff
fix-kdemm-build.diff
fix-kerberos-printing.diff
fix-macmenu.patch
fix-perl-no-defined-array.diff
fix-qxembed.diff
flash-player-non-oss.diff
fontconfig-reverse-lookup.diff
gcc44.diff
gcc45.diff
google-mail.diff
ignore-inline-menu.diff
initialise-mCrossDomain-fix.diff
integrate-global-pixmaps-new.diff
kcontrol_crash_patch.diff
kde4-applications.diff
kdecode_fakes_include.diff
kdelibs-3.5.10-cups16.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-cups20.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-CVE-2009-1687.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-cve-2009-1698.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-cve-2009-1725.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-cve-2009-2537-select-length.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-CVE-2009-2702.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-CVE-2013-2074.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-CVE-2015-7543.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-CVE-2016-6232.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-CVE-2017-6410.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-fix-bashisms.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-gcc6.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-kio.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-ossl-1.1.x.patch
kdelibs-3.5.10-ossl-1.x.patch
kdelibs-3.5.4-CVE-2009-1690.patch
kdelibs-3.5.6-fedora-lang.patch
kdelibs-3.5.8-fedora-kspell-hunspell.patch
kdelibs3-gcc-4.1-miscompile.diff
kdelibs3-hicolor-scalable-sizes.patch
kdelibs3-iceauthority-to-xdg-home.patch
kdelibs3-kdeprint-configure-no_int_main.patch
kdelibs3-svg-floatingpoint.patch
kdelibs3-tlsinit.patch
kdelibs-automake-1.11.5.patch
kdelibs-cups-1_5-fix.patch
kdelibs-CVE-2019-14744.patch
kdelibs-fedora-3.5.0-101956.patch
kdelibs-fedora-3.5.10-kglobalsettings-xdg-user-dirs.patch
kdelibs-fedora-3.5.10-latex-syntax-kile-2.0.3.patch
kdelibs-fedora-3.5.x-CVE-2011-3365.patch
kdelibs-fix-htdig.diff
kdelibs-kactionselector-multiple-item-movement.patch
kdelibs_networkstatus_branch2.diff
kdelibs-rar-support.patch
kdelibs-tarent-fix-webdav-utf8.diff
kdelibs-trinity-fix-root-icon.patch
kdelibs-trinity-flat-xml-types-r1258237.diff
kdelibs-trinity-konq-working-dir.diff
kdelibs-trinity-svg.patch
kdelibs-trinity-tls_client_method-tlsext_hostname.patch
kdelibs-trinity-xinit-fix.patch
kdelibs-xz-support.patch
kdemm.diff
kdemm-filepreview.diff
kdeprint-restart-cupsd.diff
kdeprint-utf8.diff
kdesu-settings.diff
kdeversion.diff
kfile-beagle.diff
kickoff-drop-shadow.diff
kiconview-text-fix.patch
kimproxy-warning.diff
kmimelist.diff
kremoteencoding-utf8.diff
ktip-icon-hack.diff
kwalletd-try-open.diff
libxml2-parser.patch
light_v_2_scrollbar_patch.patch
limit-max-image-size.diff
lpoptions-cups-1.2.diff
merge-svn-diff.patch
mimetype-changes.diff
mozilla-sliders.patch
networkstatus.diff
noauto-package.diff
no-debug-by-default.diff
no-progress-for-beagle-status-query.diff
oom_score_adj.patch
patch-mimetype-iconnames.diff
printpreview.patch
r874968-ebay-crash.diff
reproducible.patch
rubberband-selection.diff
scalable-tray-icons.patch
show-distribution.diff
silence.diff
smooth-scrolling.diff
spellcheck-default-utf8.diff
stat-on-media.diff
textcompletion-editor.diff
use-mediamanager.diff
use-xauthlocalhostname.diff
xinerama.patch
x-jar-desktop.diff
x-kde-InitialPreference.diff
xml-catalog.diff
xmlhttprequest_3.x.diff

Here's kdebase for you:

access.diff
applet-lock-logout.diff
applet-no-arrow.patch
arts-start-on-demand.diff
artwork.diff
autorun.patch
background_default.diff
beagle-0.3.diff
bnc584223.diff
clock-applet-style.diff
clock-suse-integrate.diff
default_fonts.diff
default-kdeprintfax.diff
dont-always-start-kaccess.diff
fileshareset2-gcc47.patch
fix_default_theme_reset.diff
fix-desktop-icons.diff
fix-kcontrol-yast.diff
fix-kio-smb-auth.diff
fix-lockup-from-gnome-apps.diff
further-desktop-icons-adjustment.patch
gcc44.diff
hide-only-showin-entries.diff
improve-panelservicemenu-geticonset.diff
ioslaveinfo-icon.diff
kcminit-ignore-arts.diff
kcmkdm-default-grub.diff
kcmsamba_log.diff
kcmshell_use_kde-sound.diff
kcontrol.diff
kcontrol-energy.diff
kde3-session.diff
kde3-session-restore.diff
kdebase-3.5.10-fix-bashisms.patch
kdebase3-change-default-system-uid-min.patch
kdebase3-etc_X11_xdm_to_usr.patch
kdebase3-kde-info2html-perlarray-defined.patch
kdebase3-openbsd-add-per-functions.diff
kdebase3-trinity-fix-mouse-module-crash.diff
kdebase-add-libtirpc.patch
kdebase-chakra-02-kip_kdesktop_rounded_icon_text_corners.patch
kdebase-chakra-18-execute_feedback.patch
kdebase-fedora-change-fonts-defaults.patch
kdebase-fedora-decrease-bounce-timeout.patch
kdebase-gcc47.patch
kdebase-kdm-config-def.pid.patch
kdebase_khc_rellinks.diff
kdebase-kioslave-rar.patch
kdebase_networkstatus_branch.diff
kdebase-pardus-add-turkish-translations.patch
kdebase-pardus-dbl-clicl-default-maximize.patch
kdebase-pardus-exclude-proc-sys-from-search.patch
kdebase-pardus-fix-autosuspend.patch
kdebase-pardus-fix-boolean-error.patch
kdebase-pardus-fix-fish.patch
kdebase-pardus-hal-add-user-mount.patch
kdebase-pardus-kconsole-add-url-handling.patch
kdebase-pardus-kicker-container-area-fix.patch
kdebase-pardus-port-klineedit-from-kde4.patch
kdebase-pardus-window-list-fix.patch
kdebase-slackware-kicker.diff
kdebase-svn-konq-move.patch
kdebase-svn-merge-diff.patch
kdebase-trident-udisks2-backend.patch
kdebase-trident-udisks2-better-volume-descriptions.patch
kdebase-trident-udisks2-dbus.diff
kdebase-trident-udisks2-fix-endless-loop.diff
kdebase-trident-udisks2-loop-devices.patch
kdebase-trident-udisks2-unmount.diff
kdebase-trident-udisks2-UUID.diff
kdebase-trinity-add-more-processes-to-watch.diff
kdebase-trinity-fix-builderror-gcc7.patch
kdebase-trinity-fix-potential-kcontrol-segfault.diff
kdebase-trinity-fix-trash-status-update.patch
kdebase-trinity-launch-ksysguard-optionr1107589.diff
kdebase-trinity-parameter-preview-in-konq.patch
kdebase-trinity-r1176186-no-busy-cursor.diff
kdebase-trinity-r1255714-nsplugin-fix-port-from-kde4.diff
kdebase-trinity-sftp-fix.diff
kdebse-trinity-clear-modified-field.diff
kdeeject.diff
kdesktop_icons.diff
kdesud-security.diff
kdesu-remember-keep-password.diff
kdm-admin-mode.diff
kdm-aliasing.diff
kdm-align-userlist-labels.diff
kdm-all-users-nopass.diff
kdm-audit-log.diff
kdm-color-scheme.diff
kdm-consolekit.diff
kdm-cope-with-new-grub.diff
kdm-make_it_cool.diff
kdm-mark_autologin.diff
kdm-relaxed-auth.diff
kdm-suspend-hal.diff
kdm-sysconfig-values.diff
kdm-use-rpmoptflags.diff
kdm-wordbreak.diff
kfontinst.diff
khelpcenter-beagle.diff
khelpcenter-gnome-support.patch
khelpcenter-localindices.patch
khelpcenter-use-suseconfig-indexer.diff
khelpcenter-use-susehelp.diff
khotkeys-multimedia-action2.diff
khotkeys-multimedia-action.diff
kicker-defaults.diff
kicker-height.patch
kickoff-beagle.diff
kickoff.diff
kickoff-install-software.diff
kickoff-kcm.diff
kickoff-shutdown-upower.patch
kio-media-errorhandling.diff
kioslave-fix-memcpy.patch
klipperrc.diff
kmenu-search-fs20050503-fixed.diff
kmenu-search-slowdown-fix.diff
knetattach-show.diff
kompmgr_use_defaults.diff
konq-combo-editor.diff
konq_listviewwidget.gcc5.patch
konsole_keytab.diff
konsole-schema-update.diff
kpamgreeter.diff
krandr-0.5.2.1.diff.bz2
kscreensaver-random-NG.diff
ksmserver-defaulttohalt.diff
ksmserver-kdeinit.diff
ksmserver-shutdown-upower.patch
ksmserver-suspend.diff
ksmserver-timed.diff
ksmserver-tooltips.diff
ksplashml.patch
ksysguardd-openslp.diff
ksysguard-slp-ratelimit.diff
kwinbindings.diff
kxkb-include-latin-layout.diff
less_verbal_kdesu.patch
libkonq-kdemm.diff
locale-dont-show-flag.diff
lock-xvkbd.diff
lowdiskspace.patch
mach_blass.diff
make-wallpapers-hideable.diff
media-cryptosupport.diff
media-iPod.diff
mediamanager-mount-point-utf8.diff
media_suse.diff
media-teardown_crypto.diff
minicli-combo-editor.diff
mtab-reenable.patch
non-fast-malloc.diff
nsplugin-aarch64.diff
nsplugin-init-gtk.diff
nsplugin-Preference.diff
openssl1.1.patch
openssl1.patch
optional-compmgr.diff
printmanager-desktop-fix.patch
quick_browser_menu.diff
remove-beagle-stuff.diff
reproducible.patch
restore-description-parens.diff
rotate-wacom-pointers.diff
runupdater.patch
select-wm-gui.diff
short-menus.diff
show-konqueror-in-menu.diff
simplify-randr-settings.diff
spellcheck-default-utf8.diff
startkde.diff
suse_default_move.diff
suspend-kpowersave.diff
suspend-unmount.diff
systemd-shutdown.patch
system-folder_man.diff
systray-icons-style.patch
systray_order.diff
taskbar.patch
teach-minicli-lock.diff
udisks2-makefile.patch
uninit.diff
use-full-hinting-by-default.diff
use-pam-before-classic.diff
workaround-pdf-on64bit-nsplugin-bug.diff
xcursor.diff
xinerama.patch

Yeah, nice!

And that's only for OpenSUSE where some folds keep it alive and spend their time and lives on making it work. In many other distros KDE 3.5 has been either fully or almost completely been removed.

[birdie]

VFIO gaming is just a nice way to say GPU pass through (or any other I/O device really). and if you can install and maintain a linux distro, even ubuntu. passthough VM for gaming isn't hard at all, it only takes a couple of minutes to setup properly, in which case, performance loss is about 5% or so, and the latency increase won't be noticed for the vast majority of people.

VM gaming is more convenient than dualboot too. and it (was, as I said, now that anticheat are blocking VMs, this point is moot) great for people who wanted to play their online games, but wanted primarily to game on linux. cause it feels really stupid when you need to do a couple of minutes of banking, but need to do two reboot cycles just to do so. then restart the game (one example, im sure there are plenty more)

Why would people install Linux in the first place when a) Windows 10 is preinstalled on > 95% of PCs and laptops, it works just fine for most use cases and has a great backwards compatibility b) Even if it's not preinstalled, an OEM licence can be bought for as low as $10 or even less c) Windows 10 now supports the entire Linux software stack at near native speeds (WSL2) with no need for "real"/full virtualization?

[JackLilhammers]

...

Because not everyone likes Windows?
I mean, you're right, oem installations are one of the main reasons of Windows monopoly, but there's Apple too.
And just like that Linux has its little share.
Speaking of Apple, Mac users have been using virtualization for years to run Windows software.

[birdie]

Because not everyone likes Windows?
I mean, you're right, oem installations are one of the main reasons of Windows monopoly, but there's Apple too.
And just like that Linux has its little share.
Speaking of Apple, Mac users have been using virtualization for years to run Windows software.

OEM preinstallations have very little to do with the popularity of Windows. Linux with its constant influx of major new features, bugs and regressions is the biggest enemy of its own success.

I've been using Linux since RedHat 5.0 and I don't remember a single year out of those over two decades, that I hasn't had to struggle with something that was broken.

If you want Linux to have a modicum of success someone must ensure it's rock stable and no one in the Linux community is interested in that aside e.g. RedHat but then RHEL is not a desktop distro.

[JackLilhammers]

birdie

I'd say it's debatable at the very least. Android shows that oem installation can make all the difference.
Of course there should be two distinct arguments for Linux as a kernel and Linux as a platform or an ecosystem composed by so many distributions, maybe too many.

The constant influx of major new features is a good thing! Bugs and regressions are just part of the development process.
Then again, users who need stability should never jump on the newly released kernel...

BTW I read your posts more than once and I think that if you look close enough I don't think any of the major desktop OSes is stable enough to meet your criteria