The future of linux gaming?

[RealNC]

If X.Org finishes all the new "next-gen" stuff (Gallium3D and everything else) and all drivers for today's cards work with those features out of the box, then Linux will indeed have a chance. Up till now, most people I gave an Ubuntu CD came to the conclusion that Linux sucks because of graphics related issues. Either videos were tearing, compiz ran like ass on their modern card, ATI owners were laughing their ass off at trying to watch a video or simply trying a 3D screensaver in compiz...

Those things are unacceptable for most Windows users. Why should they even consider Linux if it's inferior to their Windows desktop? There's no point in it. Trying to make Linux a gaming-friendly platform won't work at all if those underlying issues are not fixed. With the latest changes in X.Org, we can hope it will work out.

[Svartalf]

If X.Org finishes all the new "next-gen" stuff (Gallium3D and everything else) and all drivers for today's cards work with those features out of the box, then Linux will indeed have a chance. Up till now, most people I gave an Ubuntu CD came to the conclusion that Linux sucks because of graphics related issues. Either videos were tearing, compiz ran like ass on their modern card, ATI owners were laughing their ass off at trying to watch a video or simply trying a 3D screensaver in compiz...

Those things are unacceptable for most Windows users. Why should they even consider Linux if it's inferior to their Windows desktop? There's no point in it. Trying to make Linux a gaming-friendly platform won't work at all if those underlying issues are not fixed. With the latest changes in X.Org, we can hope it will work out.

Now, if there was anything you could get me to say is a real problem in Linux currently, that would be one of those things- and it isn't helping us much at all. Gallium3D getting into mainline is the start of the path towards where it needs to go. Even our resident AMD rep thinks this is the case and was applauding that it'd happened this week.

Now, on the leading edge, vanguard of things in Linux gaming, you're going to have not one, not two, but three different handhelds and one console/set-top/desktop with decent levels of gaming power and they're based off of Linux. One is from one of the big-boys in the consumer products industry. Titles will be almost totally interchangeable (if done right, they will be totally so...the rub's in the getting it right...) between two of the handheld models and the desktop/set-top device. I suspect that this will help usher things in as well.

[Svartalf]

Up till now, most people I gave an Ubuntu CD came to the conclusion that Linux sucks because of graphics related issues. Either videos were tearing, compiz ran like ass on their modern card, ATI owners were laughing their ass off at trying to watch a video or simply trying a 3D screensaver in compiz...

As an aside, I will mention that I've not seen issues with my R400 and R500 adapters in hand with the proprietary drivers (Though I have had a user switching lockup issue with the R600 card...) so you must have tried that with something a bit less modern that 8.10- or had the bad luck of some of the less supported chipsets on the graphics cards...

[Aradreth]

three different handhelds and one console/set-top/desktop with decent levels of gaming power and they're based off of Linux. One is from one of the big-boys in the consumer products industry.

Eh? I know of the pandora and Wiz but what are the other two?

[deanjo]

There's "bitching" and then there's Bitching. One is griping about something and then trying to find a solution or pointing out possible answers. That's what "asking" is about. Then there's doom and gloom...which is Bitching.

You might want to consider where, "it will always remain a niche OS," might lie in that spectrum. That's the same line a LOT of people have used and it's not quite the case, now is it. They said the same thing about servers, etc. And now look at where we are.

Ok, so lets look at where we are now, linux still trails in many end user aspects that have been the achillies heal for linux adoption. Yes, it has improved somewhat over the years and it has also regressed as well. It's great that linux has progressed but when it comes to the regular home computer user it still has a long way to go to catch up to the propriatry alternatives in end user experience. We see lots of features that are often introduced way too soon resulting in breakage of many otherwise working solutions. Video and audio are still ages behind then the other OS's for example. Then there are the constant "our way is better" solutions between distro's that all try to do the same task but just end up fragmenting the user base. LSB was supposed to address this but there are still many distro's that are not LSB compliant. There is nothing more disheartening and scary to a linux newb who is a average computer user where they are being told to edit / create config file XYZ, learn an advanced editor like, compile a different library version etc just to get the basic use out of a system.

Just hover around in any of your favorite distro's help chat and you will see the same basic issues over and over again, most of which have been around for years but instead of making the OS easier they try to change the user. Software is supposed to work for the user, not the user having to work for the software. Take a look at efforts like PulseAudio which was supposed to address the shortcomings of the previous state of audio in linux. Just when audio started being relatively painfree for a majority of people they go and introduce Pulse way too soon into the mainstream distro's. Number one fix in audio in linux today is to uninstall it. I can go on and on about the same old issues that still plague linux but I'm sure your very well aware of what they are.

It's also very disheartening when you see development of items of little use or hacks such bootsplash over items such as video playback, wobbly windows over connectivity, or emulation over native solutions, etc etc. If developers in linux would concentrate their talent and efforts on the average individual, not the average *nix guru, then you may see some actual headway in desktop marketshare instead of hovering below the 1% mark which it has been for all of it's life. Linux growing is great but the sad fact is that while it is growing in development as are the other OS's that are continuing to raise the bar to which linux must match and exceed in order to start making some real inroads and cut into the desktop share.

It's sad when you feel that anybody that puts the situation into perspective as being "Bitching". Perhaps if those "old arguements" were ever really addressed you would not have to view it as "Bitching" as people would not have to "Bitch" about it. My "Bitching" has resulted in hundreds of bug fixes and enhancements that has filtered down to benefit all over the last few years and is often requested by the community. A voice of reason is needed in a community full of fanatics.

[Svartalf]

Eh? I know of the pandora and Wiz but what are the other two?

Nokia N9XX and Beagleboard.

[Svartalf]

It's sad when you feel that anybody that puts the situation into perspective as being "Bitching". Perhaps if those "old arguements" were ever really addressed you would not have to view it as "Bitching" as people would not have to "Bitch" about it. My "Bitching" has resulted in hundreds of bug fixes and enhancements that has filtered down to benefit all over the last few years and is often requested by the community. A voice of reason is needed in a community full of fanatics.

I didn't put any of that situation into that perspective. But when you inject those words, "it will always remain a niche OS," you're NOT doing what you think you're doing. And, it's not at all constructive- it's Bitching, not pointing out problems, even if it's framed in that manner.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I'm going to have to just agree to disagree with you on this topic.

[curaga]

Either videos were tearing, compiz ran like ass on their modern card, ATI owners were laughing their ass off at trying to watch a video or simply trying a 3D screensaver in compiz...

Those things are unacceptable for most Windows users. Why should they even consider Linux if it's inferior to their Windows desktop?

Yeah, gotta agree with the reasoning, but also disagree with the later part. I know several Windows users who have that kind of problems, and worse. They have their HD4870 nonfunctional because of broken drivers. Or they can't watch video. Or they see crashes or bluescreens way too often. Or they had to format and reinstall only after 2 months since the previous format, because F-secure went nuts on them.

The thing is, they have very similar problems there. Yet they don't find those there "unacceptable", they still stay with Windows. It's because they don't know better, they believe it's just the state of things and has to be quietly accepted.

But, when the same user, even if burned on the same week in Windows, is confronted with a Linux machine and sees a problem of similar caliber, it somehow becomes "unacceptable".

This kind of hypocrisy, perhaps often unnoticed on their part, is a big reason they won't switch. It's not the fault of an OS, either one, it's the users and their accustomed habits. They believe that the problems in Linux space are worse, "unacceptable", when it's all about perspective and keeping an open mind.

To archieve this, indeed the users need to change not the OS. If an user looks around with this typical mindset, they will accept nothing short of perfect until they even try. That is impossible to deliver.

[RealNC]

Windows works for most people. I've yet to see someone not being able to watch videos. What you describe is not common. The graphics problems on Linux on the other hand *are* common.

[deanjo]

I didn't put any of that situation into that perspective. But when you inject those words, "it will always remain a niche OS," you're NOT doing what you think you're doing. And, it's not at all constructive- it's Bitching, not pointing out problems, even if it's framed in that manner.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I'm going to have to just agree to disagree with you on this topic.

Svartalf, maybe you should look up the meaning of niche market. Seriously.

A niche market is a focused targetable portion (subset) of a market.
By definition, then, a business that focuses on a niche market is addressing a need for a product or service that is not being addressed by mainstream providers. A niche market may be thought of as a narrowly defined group of potential customers.

Servers are a niche market.
Embedded is a niche market.
Netbooks are a niche market.
Gamehand helds are a niche market.

Desktop use is not a niche market.