Systemd Continued Commanding Linux Systems In 2015

[pal666]

Systemd is event driven... so what happens during shutdown? A lot of times things get hung... if you haven't seen this, you will.

you broke your system with you crooked hands, it is not systemd's fault. on the other hand pre-systemd systems _always_ hang during shutdown on non-trivial setups

[tinko]

Logs to computers are what flight recorders to aircraft. Logs are not meant to be edited. If event takes place and logged, it is logged. Editing it is wrong and only gives room to h4x0rz to hide traces of break-in. Generations of h4x0rz were learning to clean up logs. Let's make it a bit less convenient...

You might be aware of this, so this is just an addition in case someone isn't: It is not only less convenient but actually impossible (where impossible =~ requires breaking modern cryptography) because the journal applies recent research results by Dr. Poettering ( https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/397.pdf ), a cryptographer who happens to be the brother of Lennart Poettering, and his colleague.


@Nille_kungen: this is a technical forum. If someone publicly states technically inaccurate criticism of the other peoples work, he should expect be called out for that.

[pal666]

Not everyone sees it that way.

imbeciles do not see themselves as imbeciles, who would've thought

[Nille_kungen]

imbeciles do not see themselves as imbeciles, who would've thought

So if someone doesn't come to the same conclusion as you he must be an imbecile.
People that doesn't like systemd mustn't be stupid nor incompetent.
I can't understand why this hate against people that doesn't like systemd.

[Candy]

everything is unreadable to uneducated, it is not something to brag about

Calling people imbeciles and uneducated clearly shows your social soft skills.

[SystemCrasher]

Calling people imbeciles and uneducated clearly shows your social soft skills.

If something looks like a duck and behaves like a duck, we call it a duck. And so, if someone comes with inaccurate, misleading or even retarded statements... uhm, sorry, but we have no choice but to admit obvious. And somehow, I'm yet to see any reasonable objections against systemd. So far I've seen shitload of personal preferences and ignorance. Oh, good luck with social skills. Especially when it comes to getting someone capable of actually doing some work on your side. That's where we'll see what your social skills are worth of. Somehow, stuff like Devuan is hardly can be called glaring success to the date...

[Candy]

And somehow, I'm yet to see any reasonable objections against systemd. So far I've seen shitload of personal preferences and ignorance.

I didn't say anything against systemd. I only expressed my concerns about journald (which you have replied in depth). And at the end it's always about personal preference. Life is about personal preference. The one likes his vacation going snow boarding. The other mountain climbing and yet another one goes visiting china. If we all had the same preferences, then life would become quite boring.

[erendorn]

imbeciles do not see themselves as imbeciles, who would've thought

Oh god, the transition to the new forum cleared my ignore list. Time to fill it again!

[cjcox]

you broke your system with you crooked hands, it is not systemd's fault. on the other hand pre-systemd systems _always_ hang during shutdown on non-trivial setups

What are you basing this on? You say it can't be systemd, but it is. Whatever... just because you don't have to deal with tons of RHEL systems doesn't mean there isn't a problem... true? Like I said before, systemd lovers == deaf ears, their system is "perfect"... we in the trenches must suffer. You don't have to believe a word I say... again you believe that systemd can never be the problem... I just hope you never have an issue... it's a painful debug.

[justmy2cents]

... or you could simply use your favourite editor and load the logs ... just because something is new, doesn't make it worth while ... my complaints about journald isn't just because it's hard to use (for me it is), but also because of the huge binary blobs it's creating. Simply accept the fact that there are things in a persons life, that the person refuses to adopt or learn. As for distros adopting systemd. I read that lines (above) with an sarcastic smily in my face. Been following too many political conversations on several mailing lists and the way udev has been dealt with inside systemd. Over long or short every competitor software has gotten it's feet cut by this. But please don't get me started here.

based on how unix command line works you can always redirect console output to a file and then open it in editor. so... what is even your point?

i really don't give a fuck about political reasons you mention, FOSS is always about choice. if you don't like something, use/create something else and then you end up on one of two points of the stick. you either make good stuff (or better then previous alternatives) and people adopt it or your work gets lost and forgotten. problem with second is that people instead of being self critical, they resort to complaining. if you look at systemd, you can clearly see which end of the stick it got and if you look how interest in other init systems is vanishing same thing is obvious. i personally would never go back to upstart or god forbid sysv.

then there is also another POV when one project is successful enough, can other contributors keep up and does extra work needed to support them even pay off? project with too many directions is just as flawed as project with too few contributors.

same thing about cutting off directions happened to gtk. and if i look at it now, it was for god damn better. although, to be truthful they had a major fuckup on how they conveyed that fact. if they didn't suck at communications as they do, whole thing would face off much less resistance.

... but, why in the world you ever go as ineffective as loading log in text editor? the only thing i could imagine being even more ineffective is probably someone loading those logs in libreoffice, printing them to pdf and then inspecting in adobe acrobat